Subject
Fw: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3456 Pale Fire Canto 2
From
Date
Body
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 30 Jul 2003 13:17:35 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: NPPF Canto Two--reversals and substitutions
>
> I don't know why it might be significant but the retellings of both the
> Ant and the Grasshopper story and the Ugly Duckling story not only
> reverse the story outcomes but involve slightly different animals--a
> cicada takes the place of the grasshopper and a wood duck (a beautiful
> creature) takes the place of a swan.
>
> It must mean something.
>
> p.
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: 30 Jul 2003 13:28:12 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: NPPF Canto Two--Recessive characteristics
>
> If we didn't know better we might think from the way Hazel is described
> that she might be the product of two sets of genes from the same gene
> pool. (a slight exaggeration of course)
>
> Maud can't still have been around for the arrival of Hazel, can she
> have?
>
>
> p.
>
> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:46:04 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Michael Joseph <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 1 Incest Motif
>
> Cfalbert, without an index, it's hard to be absolutely sure, but Nabokov
> seems to make but one passing reference to Lady Belerma, in his lecture
> "Narrative and Commnetary Part To (1615), merely recounting the narrative
> passage in which she appears (chapter 23). Glad to check further if you
> remember something more.
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, cfalbert wrote:
>
> > Does anyone have access to Nab's lectures on Quixote?
> >
> > If so, please check what he has to say about Lady Belerma and get back
to
> > us...
> >
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > love,
> > cfa
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael Joseph" <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu>
> > To: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> > Cc: "Pynchon-L" <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 3:01 PM
> > Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 1 Incest Motif
> >
> >
> > >
> > > On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, s~Z wrote:
> > > >
> > > > My reading has nothing to do with Freud,
> > >
> > > I thought you were pointing through your quotation at VN's use of the
term
> > > "uncanny," and it made sense that as you were analyzing the poem with
the
> > > thought that it possessed a central secret and that secret was incest,
you
> > > would be drawing on Freud, one way or the other, either to explain
> > > Nabokov's incest gambit or to rat out the meanings of incest.
> > >
> > > Although I'm persuaded against the incest argument, I'm not persuaded
> > > there aren't clues pointing toward it. I agree that, since Kinbote is
> > > apparently a pedophile, it would be interesting to see Shade as an
abused
> > > child - which is different from incest, of course. Kinbote <> Shade
would
> > > constitute the binary: literary admirer/abuser of innocence ..>
admired
> > > poet/abused innocent, and Kinbote's various pursuits would take on an
> > > additional quality of menace.
> > >
> > >
> > > > and I read the quote
> > > > through my hypothesis that ADA has clues for interpreting PF.
> > > > I.e., seeing ADA as the dot-arrow pointing back to PF.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I see the mysterious backward foot-print as Shade's symbol of the
present,
> > > which moves into the future but points back to the past, and the
parallel
> > > operations of the poem. (Of course, it could be other things, too. We
know
> > > it's a pheasant, so at least it can't be a wild goose.)
> > >
> > >
> > > > "Learn to distinguish banality. Remember that mediocrity thrives on
> > 'ideas.'
> > > > Beware of the modish message. Ask yourself if the symbol you have
> > detected
> > > > is not your own footprint. Ignore allegories. By all means place the
> > 'how'
> > > > above the 'what' but do not let it be confused with the 'so what.'
Rely
> > on
> > > > the sudden erection of your small dorsal hairs. Do not drag in Freud
at
> > this
> > > > point. All the rest depends on personal talent." - Vladimir Nabokov
> > > >
> > >
> > > Devilish advice!
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 30 Jul 2003 13:54:04 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: NPPF -- Doubts on the incest business
>
> One reason to cast doubt on the "shocking theory" (in addition to the
> aesthetic one--N is better than that) might be that back at the time the
> book was being written child seduction and/or rape, including those
> cases occurring within the family, were not thought of as nearly the
> social problem they later become known for. Didn't
> psychiatrists--following Freud's example--tend to pass tales of such
> things off as screen memories and fantasies deriving from psychoanalytic
> theory? It was only in the seventies or later when Freud's so called
> rejection of the seduction theory was brought forcefully into question
> and Oprah and Roseanne took up the challenge with a vengeance that this
> type of child abuse moved to the front burner of national interest. Of
> course N could have been ahead of his time. But somehow I don't think
> child seduction resulting in serious trauma and lifelong complications
> would greatly interest an author who was capable of dealing with the
> subject as tragicomic love stories as in Lolita and Ada.
>
> Happy to be corrected. No personal experience.
>
> P.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:02:37 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF -- Doubts on the incest business
>
> >>> But somehow I don't think
> child seduction resulting in serious trauma and lifelong complications
> would greatly interest an author who was capable of dealing with the
> subject as tragicomic love stories as in Lolita and Ada.<<<
>
> Two fine examples of Nabokov's lack of interest in child seduction and
> incest.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:11:21 -0400
> From: "cfalbert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 1 Incest Motif
>
> Thank you for your assistance......Belerma, according to one essay I
scanned
> in the Norton Quixote may be part of a "picaro" metaphor.......this would
> make the "cunnilingus" references perhaps only metonymical for the
> "maturing" process.......
>
>
> and thank you again for going to the trouble
>
> love,
> cfa
>
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Joseph" <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu>
> To: "cfalbert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Cc: <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 1:46 PM
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 1 Incest Motif
>
>
> > Cfalbert, without an index, it's hard to be absolutely sure, but Nabokov
> > seems to make but one passing reference to Lady Belerma, in his lecture
> > "Narrative and Commnetary Part To (1615), merely recounting the
narrative
> > passage in which she appears (chapter 23). Glad to check further if you
> > remember something more.
> >
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, cfalbert wrote:
> >
> > > Does anyone have access to Nab's lectures on Quixote?
> > >
> > > If so, please check what he has to say about Lady Belerma and get back
> to
> > > us...
> > >
> > >
> > > thanks,
> > >
> > > love,
> > > cfa
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Michael Joseph" <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu>
> > > To: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> > > Cc: "Pynchon-L" <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 3:01 PM
> > > Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 1 Incest Motif
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, s~Z wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > My reading has nothing to do with Freud,
> > > >
> > > > I thought you were pointing through your quotation at VN's use of
the
> term
> > > > "uncanny," and it made sense that as you were analyzing the poem
with
> the
> > > > thought that it possessed a central secret and that secret was
incest,
> you
> > > > would be drawing on Freud, one way or the other, either to explain
> > > > Nabokov's incest gambit or to rat out the meanings of incest.
> > > >
> > > > Although I'm persuaded against the incest argument, I'm not
persuaded
> > > > there aren't clues pointing toward it. I agree that, since Kinbote
is
> > > > apparently a pedophile, it would be interesting to see Shade as an
> abused
> > > > child - which is different from incest, of course. Kinbote <> Shade
> would
> > > > constitute the binary: literary admirer/abuser of innocence ..>
> admired
> > > > poet/abused innocent, and Kinbote's various pursuits would take on
an
> > > > additional quality of menace.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > and I read the quote
> > > > > through my hypothesis that ADA has clues for interpreting PF.
> > > > > I.e., seeing ADA as the dot-arrow pointing back to PF.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I see the mysterious backward foot-print as Shade's symbol of the
> present,
> > > > which moves into the future but points back to the past, and the
> parallel
> > > > operations of the poem. (Of course, it could be other things, too.
We
> know
> > > > it's a pheasant, so at least it can't be a wild goose.)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > "Learn to distinguish banality. Remember that mediocrity thrives
on
> > > 'ideas.'
> > > > > Beware of the modish message. Ask yourself if the symbol you have
> > > detected
> > > > > is not your own footprint. Ignore allegories. By all means place
the
> > > 'how'
> > > > > above the 'what' but do not let it be confused with the 'so what.'
> Rely
> > > on
> > > > > the sudden erection of your small dorsal hairs. Do not drag in
Freud
> at
> > > this
> > > > > point. All the rest depends on personal talent." - Vladimir
Nabokov
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Devilish advice!
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:16:07 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto Two--Recessive characteristics
>
> - --- Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> > If we didn't know better we might think from the way Hazel is described
that
> she might be the product of two sets of genes from the same gene pool. (a
> slight exaggeration of course)
>
> I think fom the list of ailments her only troubles are being hit with the
ugly
> stick, swollen feet, and dandruff. Then again there is that "murmuring
> dreadful words in monotone,■ which suggest mental problems, which are not
> necesarily inherited.
>
> > Maud can't still have been around for the arrival of Hazel, can she
have?
>
> Why not? I think Hazel's sixteen when Maud dies. See K's comments on
that
> line.
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:17:10 -0400
> From: "cfalbert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF -- Doubts on the incest business
>
> Also, thought we have only skimmed the edges of the issue, it was
orignially
> believed that hysteria was triggered by FALSE recollections of incestuous
> abuse.....
>
> Hysteria was a "precursor" of what are now considered several dissociative
> disorders - many of which "feature" "twilight and fugue" states....
>
> I cannot currently locate my link, but for further info google "hysteria
> Charcot"
>
> and I owe the list my rap on Shade's juvenile condition....I'm just
drowning
> in business xit at the moment...
>
> love,
> cfa
>
> love,
> cfa
>
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> To: <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 2:02 PM
> Subject: Re: NPPF -- Doubts on the incest business
>
>
> > >>> But somehow I don't think
> > child seduction resulting in serious trauma and lifelong complications
> > would greatly interest an author who was capable of dealing with the
> > subject as tragicomic love stories as in Lolita and Ada.<<<
> >
> > Two fine examples of Nabokov's lack of interest in child seduction and
> > incest.
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 30 Jul 2003 14:41:07 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF -- Doubts on the incest business
>
> On Wed, 2003-07-30 at 14:18, David Morris wrote:
> >
> > --- Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > One reason to cast doubt on the "shocking theory"...
> >
> > ... is the fact that she's a lesbian.
>
>
> No one is necessarily just one thing.
>
> But I agree there are many reasons why the UNshocking theory is hard to
> give credence to.
>
> P
> >
> > DM
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 30 Jul 2003 14:46:57 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF -- Doubts on the incest business
>
> On Wed, 2003-07-30 at 14:02, s~Z wrote:
> > >>> But somehow I don't think
> > child seduction resulting in serious trauma and lifelong complications
> > would greatly interest an author who was capable of dealing with the
> > subject as tragicomic love stories as in Lolita and Ada.<<<
> >
> > Two fine examples of Nabokov's lack of interest in child seduction and
> > incest.
> >
>
> Interesting examples, the operative word being interesting. (also heart
> rending, disapprove what one will)
>
> Of course the incest suggestions in Pale Fire could TURN interesting.
> We're only on Canto Two.
>
> P.
>
>
> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3456
> ********************************
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to waste@waste.org
> with "unsubscribe pynchon-l-digest" in the message body.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 30 Jul 2003 13:17:35 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: NPPF Canto Two--reversals and substitutions
>
> I don't know why it might be significant but the retellings of both the
> Ant and the Grasshopper story and the Ugly Duckling story not only
> reverse the story outcomes but involve slightly different animals--a
> cicada takes the place of the grasshopper and a wood duck (a beautiful
> creature) takes the place of a swan.
>
> It must mean something.
>
> p.
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: 30 Jul 2003 13:28:12 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: NPPF Canto Two--Recessive characteristics
>
> If we didn't know better we might think from the way Hazel is described
> that she might be the product of two sets of genes from the same gene
> pool. (a slight exaggeration of course)
>
> Maud can't still have been around for the arrival of Hazel, can she
> have?
>
>
> p.
>
> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:46:04 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Michael Joseph <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 1 Incest Motif
>
> Cfalbert, without an index, it's hard to be absolutely sure, but Nabokov
> seems to make but one passing reference to Lady Belerma, in his lecture
> "Narrative and Commnetary Part To (1615), merely recounting the narrative
> passage in which she appears (chapter 23). Glad to check further if you
> remember something more.
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, cfalbert wrote:
>
> > Does anyone have access to Nab's lectures on Quixote?
> >
> > If so, please check what he has to say about Lady Belerma and get back
to
> > us...
> >
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > love,
> > cfa
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael Joseph" <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu>
> > To: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> > Cc: "Pynchon-L" <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 3:01 PM
> > Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 1 Incest Motif
> >
> >
> > >
> > > On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, s~Z wrote:
> > > >
> > > > My reading has nothing to do with Freud,
> > >
> > > I thought you were pointing through your quotation at VN's use of the
term
> > > "uncanny," and it made sense that as you were analyzing the poem with
the
> > > thought that it possessed a central secret and that secret was incest,
you
> > > would be drawing on Freud, one way or the other, either to explain
> > > Nabokov's incest gambit or to rat out the meanings of incest.
> > >
> > > Although I'm persuaded against the incest argument, I'm not persuaded
> > > there aren't clues pointing toward it. I agree that, since Kinbote is
> > > apparently a pedophile, it would be interesting to see Shade as an
abused
> > > child - which is different from incest, of course. Kinbote <> Shade
would
> > > constitute the binary: literary admirer/abuser of innocence ..>
admired
> > > poet/abused innocent, and Kinbote's various pursuits would take on an
> > > additional quality of menace.
> > >
> > >
> > > > and I read the quote
> > > > through my hypothesis that ADA has clues for interpreting PF.
> > > > I.e., seeing ADA as the dot-arrow pointing back to PF.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I see the mysterious backward foot-print as Shade's symbol of the
present,
> > > which moves into the future but points back to the past, and the
parallel
> > > operations of the poem. (Of course, it could be other things, too. We
know
> > > it's a pheasant, so at least it can't be a wild goose.)
> > >
> > >
> > > > "Learn to distinguish banality. Remember that mediocrity thrives on
> > 'ideas.'
> > > > Beware of the modish message. Ask yourself if the symbol you have
> > detected
> > > > is not your own footprint. Ignore allegories. By all means place the
> > 'how'
> > > > above the 'what' but do not let it be confused with the 'so what.'
Rely
> > on
> > > > the sudden erection of your small dorsal hairs. Do not drag in Freud
at
> > this
> > > > point. All the rest depends on personal talent." - Vladimir Nabokov
> > > >
> > >
> > > Devilish advice!
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 30 Jul 2003 13:54:04 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: NPPF -- Doubts on the incest business
>
> One reason to cast doubt on the "shocking theory" (in addition to the
> aesthetic one--N is better than that) might be that back at the time the
> book was being written child seduction and/or rape, including those
> cases occurring within the family, were not thought of as nearly the
> social problem they later become known for. Didn't
> psychiatrists--following Freud's example--tend to pass tales of such
> things off as screen memories and fantasies deriving from psychoanalytic
> theory? It was only in the seventies or later when Freud's so called
> rejection of the seduction theory was brought forcefully into question
> and Oprah and Roseanne took up the challenge with a vengeance that this
> type of child abuse moved to the front burner of national interest. Of
> course N could have been ahead of his time. But somehow I don't think
> child seduction resulting in serious trauma and lifelong complications
> would greatly interest an author who was capable of dealing with the
> subject as tragicomic love stories as in Lolita and Ada.
>
> Happy to be corrected. No personal experience.
>
> P.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:02:37 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF -- Doubts on the incest business
>
> >>> But somehow I don't think
> child seduction resulting in serious trauma and lifelong complications
> would greatly interest an author who was capable of dealing with the
> subject as tragicomic love stories as in Lolita and Ada.<<<
>
> Two fine examples of Nabokov's lack of interest in child seduction and
> incest.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:11:21 -0400
> From: "cfalbert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 1 Incest Motif
>
> Thank you for your assistance......Belerma, according to one essay I
scanned
> in the Norton Quixote may be part of a "picaro" metaphor.......this would
> make the "cunnilingus" references perhaps only metonymical for the
> "maturing" process.......
>
>
> and thank you again for going to the trouble
>
> love,
> cfa
>
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Joseph" <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu>
> To: "cfalbert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Cc: <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 1:46 PM
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 1 Incest Motif
>
>
> > Cfalbert, without an index, it's hard to be absolutely sure, but Nabokov
> > seems to make but one passing reference to Lady Belerma, in his lecture
> > "Narrative and Commnetary Part To (1615), merely recounting the
narrative
> > passage in which she appears (chapter 23). Glad to check further if you
> > remember something more.
> >
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, cfalbert wrote:
> >
> > > Does anyone have access to Nab's lectures on Quixote?
> > >
> > > If so, please check what he has to say about Lady Belerma and get back
> to
> > > us...
> > >
> > >
> > > thanks,
> > >
> > > love,
> > > cfa
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Michael Joseph" <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu>
> > > To: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> > > Cc: "Pynchon-L" <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 3:01 PM
> > > Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 1 Incest Motif
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, s~Z wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > My reading has nothing to do with Freud,
> > > >
> > > > I thought you were pointing through your quotation at VN's use of
the
> term
> > > > "uncanny," and it made sense that as you were analyzing the poem
with
> the
> > > > thought that it possessed a central secret and that secret was
incest,
> you
> > > > would be drawing on Freud, one way or the other, either to explain
> > > > Nabokov's incest gambit or to rat out the meanings of incest.
> > > >
> > > > Although I'm persuaded against the incest argument, I'm not
persuaded
> > > > there aren't clues pointing toward it. I agree that, since Kinbote
is
> > > > apparently a pedophile, it would be interesting to see Shade as an
> abused
> > > > child - which is different from incest, of course. Kinbote <> Shade
> would
> > > > constitute the binary: literary admirer/abuser of innocence ..>
> admired
> > > > poet/abused innocent, and Kinbote's various pursuits would take on
an
> > > > additional quality of menace.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > and I read the quote
> > > > > through my hypothesis that ADA has clues for interpreting PF.
> > > > > I.e., seeing ADA as the dot-arrow pointing back to PF.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I see the mysterious backward foot-print as Shade's symbol of the
> present,
> > > > which moves into the future but points back to the past, and the
> parallel
> > > > operations of the poem. (Of course, it could be other things, too.
We
> know
> > > > it's a pheasant, so at least it can't be a wild goose.)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > "Learn to distinguish banality. Remember that mediocrity thrives
on
> > > 'ideas.'
> > > > > Beware of the modish message. Ask yourself if the symbol you have
> > > detected
> > > > > is not your own footprint. Ignore allegories. By all means place
the
> > > 'how'
> > > > > above the 'what' but do not let it be confused with the 'so what.'
> Rely
> > > on
> > > > > the sudden erection of your small dorsal hairs. Do not drag in
Freud
> at
> > > this
> > > > > point. All the rest depends on personal talent." - Vladimir
Nabokov
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Devilish advice!
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:16:07 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto Two--Recessive characteristics
>
> - --- Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> > If we didn't know better we might think from the way Hazel is described
that
> she might be the product of two sets of genes from the same gene pool. (a
> slight exaggeration of course)
>
> I think fom the list of ailments her only troubles are being hit with the
ugly
> stick, swollen feet, and dandruff. Then again there is that "murmuring
> dreadful words in monotone,■ which suggest mental problems, which are not
> necesarily inherited.
>
> > Maud can't still have been around for the arrival of Hazel, can she
have?
>
> Why not? I think Hazel's sixteen when Maud dies. See K's comments on
that
> line.
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:17:10 -0400
> From: "cfalbert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF -- Doubts on the incest business
>
> Also, thought we have only skimmed the edges of the issue, it was
orignially
> believed that hysteria was triggered by FALSE recollections of incestuous
> abuse.....
>
> Hysteria was a "precursor" of what are now considered several dissociative
> disorders - many of which "feature" "twilight and fugue" states....
>
> I cannot currently locate my link, but for further info google "hysteria
> Charcot"
>
> and I owe the list my rap on Shade's juvenile condition....I'm just
drowning
> in business xit at the moment...
>
> love,
> cfa
>
> love,
> cfa
>
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> To: <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 2:02 PM
> Subject: Re: NPPF -- Doubts on the incest business
>
>
> > >>> But somehow I don't think
> > child seduction resulting in serious trauma and lifelong complications
> > would greatly interest an author who was capable of dealing with the
> > subject as tragicomic love stories as in Lolita and Ada.<<<
> >
> > Two fine examples of Nabokov's lack of interest in child seduction and
> > incest.
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 30 Jul 2003 14:41:07 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF -- Doubts on the incest business
>
> On Wed, 2003-07-30 at 14:18, David Morris wrote:
> >
> > --- Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > One reason to cast doubt on the "shocking theory"...
> >
> > ... is the fact that she's a lesbian.
>
>
> No one is necessarily just one thing.
>
> But I agree there are many reasons why the UNshocking theory is hard to
> give credence to.
>
> P
> >
> > DM
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 30 Jul 2003 14:46:57 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF -- Doubts on the incest business
>
> On Wed, 2003-07-30 at 14:02, s~Z wrote:
> > >>> But somehow I don't think
> > child seduction resulting in serious trauma and lifelong complications
> > would greatly interest an author who was capable of dealing with the
> > subject as tragicomic love stories as in Lolita and Ada.<<<
> >
> > Two fine examples of Nabokov's lack of interest in child seduction and
> > incest.
> >
>
> Interesting examples, the operative word being interesting. (also heart
> rending, disapprove what one will)
>
> Of course the incest suggestions in Pale Fire could TURN interesting.
> We're only on Canto Two.
>
> P.
>
>
> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3456
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