Subject
Re: Fwd: TT-10,13, 14,15 (fwd) thank heavens
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Dear AB,
Thanks for your detailed explanation. I wondered why I had not heard anyone
say "Thank Heaven/Heavens" except on TV or in movies. Thanks to you, now I
know the reason. I was amused by your grandmother's "Heavens!"
Best,
Akiko
----- Original Message -----
From: "Donald B. Johnson" <chtodel@gss.ucsb.edu>
To: <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: Fwd: TT-10,13, 14,15 (fwd) thank heavens
> Due to infrequent checking of my home email I always enter these
discussions
> late, but as a Midwesterner, Thank Heavens is perfectly familar to me. A
> regionalism, I'm sure. I have a feeling that Thank Heaven is slightly more
> "upscale" than the plural. One might say Thank Heaven is the utterance of
an
> Episcopalian, while Thank Heavens, more likely comes from a Baptist. In
> neither case is there any actual confusion about how many Heavens there
> really are. Nor, in users of the expression, is there much doubt that a
> Heaven of some kind exists.
>
> But the expression itself isn't much in use by anyone under the age of
about
> 60, other than by those few who have eschewed the trend toward strong
speech
> that has characterised American English and English English since the end
of
> WW II.
>
> My favorite use of Heavens! as an expression of surprise: a family game of
> Trivial Pursuit. My sister read off the definition of menage a trois on
the
> back of the TP card: "Sex between three persons."
>
> "Heavens!" my mother exclaimed. At the age of 70, she had never dreamed of
> such behavior.
>
> AB
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Donald B. Johnson" <chtodel@gss.ucsb.edu>
> To: <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 2:10 PM
> Subject: Re: Fwd: TT-10,13, 14,15 (fwd) thank heavens
>
>
> > Akiko,
> > I think it was Carolyn Kunin who called our attention to the distinction
> > between "heaven" and "sky" - which may not occur in the romance
> languages.
> > Are there two different words in Russian? I don´t think there is a
> > distinction in German, either.
> > Is this worth pursuing?
> > Jansy
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Donald B. Johnson" <chtodel@gss.ucsb.edu>
> > To: <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 1:57 PM
> > Subject: Re: Fwd: TT-10,13, 14,15 (fwd) thank heavens
> >
> >
> > > Thank you all who posted on "thank heavens." I did not think the idiom
> > would
> > > be so tricky, but it is very interesting.
> > >
> > > I wonder which could be possible:
> > > 1) VN found "Thank Heavens!" natural as Don, even if used by Julia, a
> New
> > > Yorker, and did not accept the editor's suggestion that it be changed
to
> > > "Thank Heaven!"
> > > 2) VN found it wrong as Eric, or unnatural for Julia, and
intentionally
> > made
> > > it "Heavens" to draw the reader's attention to it so that the reader
> would
> > > ask "Who is narrating?"
> > >
> > > If 2) is the case, I think it is probably Armande rather than Mr. R.
who
> > > speaks. As Carolyn and an anonymous contributor taught, she might say
> > > "heavens" thinking about the word in plural like "cieux." It is too
> > > difficult for me, but an astute reader could be aware of it as it
comes
> > > after "l'Erale Tribune." As Mary wrote, Mr. R. might have misheard or
> > > misquoted it, though.
> > >
> > > I could not find the idiom in VN's other novels. Does he use it
> anywhere?
> > >
> > > Akiko
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Donald B. Johnson" <chtodel@gss.ucsb.edu>
> > > To: <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> > > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 4:49 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Fwd: TT-10,13, 14,15 (fwd) thank heavens
> > >
> > >
> > > > Dear Akiko:
> > > >
> > > > This may be regional or generational, but Thank heavens definitely
> > > sounds
> > > > wrong to me. I would have said it is a confusion of various
idioms --
> > > i.e.
> > > > heavens to Betsy! But a Google search turns up many hits, including
> the
> > > > Dixie Chicks' song Thank heavens for Dale Evans. I still think,
> > though --
> > > > and this is in contrast to Don -- that in the context "My former
> > > > stepfather, thank Heavens" -- the plural is "off", and that "Thank
> > > heavens"
> > > > is more likely in a longer sentence. But I'm not as sure as I
was...
> > > > Eric
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >Dear Eric,
> > > > >
> > > > >Thanks very much for resending your comments.
> > > > >
> > > > >I am still puzzled by "thank heavens." I understand the idiom is
> > > originally
> > > > >"thank heaven," but is it wrong as "to make a story short" is? Some
> > > English
> > > > >dictionaries give "thank heaven(s)." Cobuild English Dictionary for
> > > Advanced
> > > > >Learners and Longman Advanced American Dictionary (probably more)
> > contain
> > > > >"thank God, heavens, goodness," omitting "thank heaven." Does
"thank
> > > > >heavens" sound strange to most native speakers of English?
> > > > >
> > > > >Best,
> > > > >Akiko
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> on chapter 13
> > > > >> 45 - "My former stepfather, thank Heavens" Julia is parodying
R.,
> > "who
> > > > >> had an exasperating way not only of trotting out hackneyed
formulas
> > in
> > > his
> > > > >> would-be colloquial thickly accented English, but also of getting
> > them
> > > > >> wrong)"
> > > > >
> > > > >> Eric
> > > > >
> > > > >----- End forwarded message -----
> > > > >
> > > > >EDCOMMENT. To my ear, "Thank heavenS" seems more natural. "Thank
> > Heaven"
> > > > >seems
> > > > >to call for some specific object, i.e., "Thank Heaven for little
> girls"
> > > as
> > > > >Maurice Chevalier (& HH?) used to sing.
> > > >
> > > > ----- End forwarded message -----
> > >
> > > ----- End forwarded message -----
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ----- End forwarded message -----
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----
----- End forwarded message -----
Thanks for your detailed explanation. I wondered why I had not heard anyone
say "Thank Heaven/Heavens" except on TV or in movies. Thanks to you, now I
know the reason. I was amused by your grandmother's "Heavens!"
Best,
Akiko
----- Original Message -----
From: "Donald B. Johnson" <chtodel@gss.ucsb.edu>
To: <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: Fwd: TT-10,13, 14,15 (fwd) thank heavens
> Due to infrequent checking of my home email I always enter these
discussions
> late, but as a Midwesterner, Thank Heavens is perfectly familar to me. A
> regionalism, I'm sure. I have a feeling that Thank Heaven is slightly more
> "upscale" than the plural. One might say Thank Heaven is the utterance of
an
> Episcopalian, while Thank Heavens, more likely comes from a Baptist. In
> neither case is there any actual confusion about how many Heavens there
> really are. Nor, in users of the expression, is there much doubt that a
> Heaven of some kind exists.
>
> But the expression itself isn't much in use by anyone under the age of
about
> 60, other than by those few who have eschewed the trend toward strong
speech
> that has characterised American English and English English since the end
of
> WW II.
>
> My favorite use of Heavens! as an expression of surprise: a family game of
> Trivial Pursuit. My sister read off the definition of menage a trois on
the
> back of the TP card: "Sex between three persons."
>
> "Heavens!" my mother exclaimed. At the age of 70, she had never dreamed of
> such behavior.
>
> AB
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Donald B. Johnson" <chtodel@gss.ucsb.edu>
> To: <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 2:10 PM
> Subject: Re: Fwd: TT-10,13, 14,15 (fwd) thank heavens
>
>
> > Akiko,
> > I think it was Carolyn Kunin who called our attention to the distinction
> > between "heaven" and "sky" - which may not occur in the romance
> languages.
> > Are there two different words in Russian? I don´t think there is a
> > distinction in German, either.
> > Is this worth pursuing?
> > Jansy
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Donald B. Johnson" <chtodel@gss.ucsb.edu>
> > To: <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 1:57 PM
> > Subject: Re: Fwd: TT-10,13, 14,15 (fwd) thank heavens
> >
> >
> > > Thank you all who posted on "thank heavens." I did not think the idiom
> > would
> > > be so tricky, but it is very interesting.
> > >
> > > I wonder which could be possible:
> > > 1) VN found "Thank Heavens!" natural as Don, even if used by Julia, a
> New
> > > Yorker, and did not accept the editor's suggestion that it be changed
to
> > > "Thank Heaven!"
> > > 2) VN found it wrong as Eric, or unnatural for Julia, and
intentionally
> > made
> > > it "Heavens" to draw the reader's attention to it so that the reader
> would
> > > ask "Who is narrating?"
> > >
> > > If 2) is the case, I think it is probably Armande rather than Mr. R.
who
> > > speaks. As Carolyn and an anonymous contributor taught, she might say
> > > "heavens" thinking about the word in plural like "cieux." It is too
> > > difficult for me, but an astute reader could be aware of it as it
comes
> > > after "l'Erale Tribune." As Mary wrote, Mr. R. might have misheard or
> > > misquoted it, though.
> > >
> > > I could not find the idiom in VN's other novels. Does he use it
> anywhere?
> > >
> > > Akiko
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Donald B. Johnson" <chtodel@gss.ucsb.edu>
> > > To: <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> > > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 4:49 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Fwd: TT-10,13, 14,15 (fwd) thank heavens
> > >
> > >
> > > > Dear Akiko:
> > > >
> > > > This may be regional or generational, but Thank heavens definitely
> > > sounds
> > > > wrong to me. I would have said it is a confusion of various
idioms --
> > > i.e.
> > > > heavens to Betsy! But a Google search turns up many hits, including
> the
> > > > Dixie Chicks' song Thank heavens for Dale Evans. I still think,
> > though --
> > > > and this is in contrast to Don -- that in the context "My former
> > > > stepfather, thank Heavens" -- the plural is "off", and that "Thank
> > > heavens"
> > > > is more likely in a longer sentence. But I'm not as sure as I
was...
> > > > Eric
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >Dear Eric,
> > > > >
> > > > >Thanks very much for resending your comments.
> > > > >
> > > > >I am still puzzled by "thank heavens." I understand the idiom is
> > > originally
> > > > >"thank heaven," but is it wrong as "to make a story short" is? Some
> > > English
> > > > >dictionaries give "thank heaven(s)." Cobuild English Dictionary for
> > > Advanced
> > > > >Learners and Longman Advanced American Dictionary (probably more)
> > contain
> > > > >"thank God, heavens, goodness," omitting "thank heaven." Does
"thank
> > > > >heavens" sound strange to most native speakers of English?
> > > > >
> > > > >Best,
> > > > >Akiko
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> on chapter 13
> > > > >> 45 - "My former stepfather, thank Heavens" Julia is parodying
R.,
> > "who
> > > > >> had an exasperating way not only of trotting out hackneyed
formulas
> > in
> > > his
> > > > >> would-be colloquial thickly accented English, but also of getting
> > them
> > > > >> wrong)"
> > > > >
> > > > >> Eric
> > > > >
> > > > >----- End forwarded message -----
> > > > >
> > > > >EDCOMMENT. To my ear, "Thank heavenS" seems more natural. "Thank
> > Heaven"
> > > > >seems
> > > > >to call for some specific object, i.e., "Thank Heaven for little
> girls"
> > > as
> > > > >Maurice Chevalier (& HH?) used to sing.
> > > >
> > > > ----- End forwarded message -----
> > >
> > > ----- End forwarded message -----
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ----- End forwarded message -----
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----
----- End forwarded message -----