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Re: Fwd: TT-10,13, 14,15 (fwd) thank heavens
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Due to infrequent checking of my home email I always enter these discussions
late, but as a Midwesterner, Thank Heavens is perfectly familar to me. A
regionalism, I'm sure. I have a feeling that Thank Heaven is slightly more
"upscale" than the plural. One might say Thank Heaven is the utterance of an
Episcopalian, while Thank Heavens, more likely comes from a Baptist. In
neither case is there any actual confusion about how many Heavens there
really are. Nor, in users of the expression, is there much doubt that a
Heaven of some kind exists.
But the expression itself isn't much in use by anyone under the age of about
60, other than by those few who have eschewed the trend toward strong speech
that has characterised American English and English English since the end of
WW II.
My favorite use of Heavens! as an expression of surprise: a family game of
Trivial Pursuit. My sister read off the definition of menage a trois on the
back of the TP card: "Sex between three persons."
"Heavens!" my mother exclaimed. At the age of 70, she had never dreamed of
such behavior.
AB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Donald B. Johnson" <chtodel@gss.ucsb.edu>
To: <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 2:10 PM
Subject: Re: Fwd: TT-10,13, 14,15 (fwd) thank heavens
> Akiko,
> I think it was Carolyn Kunin who called our attention to the distinction
> between "heaven" and "sky" - which may not occur in the romance
languages.
> Are there two different words in Russian? I don´t think there is a
> distinction in German, either.
> Is this worth pursuing?
> Jansy
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Donald B. Johnson" <chtodel@gss.ucsb.edu>
> To: <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 1:57 PM
> Subject: Re: Fwd: TT-10,13, 14,15 (fwd) thank heavens
>
>
> > Thank you all who posted on "thank heavens." I did not think the idiom
> would
> > be so tricky, but it is very interesting.
> >
> > I wonder which could be possible:
> > 1) VN found "Thank Heavens!" natural as Don, even if used by Julia, a
New
> > Yorker, and did not accept the editor's suggestion that it be changed to
> > "Thank Heaven!"
> > 2) VN found it wrong as Eric, or unnatural for Julia, and intentionally
> made
> > it "Heavens" to draw the reader's attention to it so that the reader
would
> > ask "Who is narrating?"
> >
> > If 2) is the case, I think it is probably Armande rather than Mr. R. who
> > speaks. As Carolyn and an anonymous contributor taught, she might say
> > "heavens" thinking about the word in plural like "cieux." It is too
> > difficult for me, but an astute reader could be aware of it as it comes
> > after "l'Erale Tribune." As Mary wrote, Mr. R. might have misheard or
> > misquoted it, though.
> >
> > I could not find the idiom in VN's other novels. Does he use it
anywhere?
> >
> > Akiko
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Donald B. Johnson" <chtodel@gss.ucsb.edu>
> > To: <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 4:49 AM
> > Subject: Re: Fwd: TT-10,13, 14,15 (fwd) thank heavens
> >
> >
> > > Dear Akiko:
> > >
> > > This may be regional or generational, but Thank heavens definitely
> > sounds
> > > wrong to me. I would have said it is a confusion of various idioms --
> > i.e.
> > > heavens to Betsy! But a Google search turns up many hits, including
the
> > > Dixie Chicks' song Thank heavens for Dale Evans. I still think,
> though --
> > > and this is in contrast to Don -- that in the context "My former
> > > stepfather, thank Heavens" -- the plural is "off", and that "Thank
> > heavens"
> > > is more likely in a longer sentence. But I'm not as sure as I was...
> > > Eric
> > >
> > >
> > > >Dear Eric,
> > > >
> > > >Thanks very much for resending your comments.
> > > >
> > > >I am still puzzled by "thank heavens." I understand the idiom is
> > originally
> > > >"thank heaven," but is it wrong as "to make a story short" is? Some
> > English
> > > >dictionaries give "thank heaven(s)." Cobuild English Dictionary for
> > Advanced
> > > >Learners and Longman Advanced American Dictionary (probably more)
> contain
> > > >"thank God, heavens, goodness," omitting "thank heaven." Does "thank
> > > >heavens" sound strange to most native speakers of English?
> > > >
> > > >Best,
> > > >Akiko
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> on chapter 13
> > > >> 45 - "My former stepfather, thank Heavens" Julia is parodying R.,
> "who
> > > >> had an exasperating way not only of trotting out hackneyed formulas
> in
> > his
> > > >> would-be colloquial thickly accented English, but also of getting
> them
> > > >> wrong)"
> > > >
> > > >> Eric
> > > >
> > > >----- End forwarded message -----
> > > >
> > > >EDCOMMENT. To my ear, "Thank heavenS" seems more natural. "Thank
> Heaven"
> > > >seems
> > > >to call for some specific object, i.e., "Thank Heaven for little
girls"
> > as
> > > >Maurice Chevalier (& HH?) used to sing.
> > >
> > > ----- End forwarded message -----
> >
> > ----- End forwarded message -----
> >
> >
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----
----- End forwarded message -----
late, but as a Midwesterner, Thank Heavens is perfectly familar to me. A
regionalism, I'm sure. I have a feeling that Thank Heaven is slightly more
"upscale" than the plural. One might say Thank Heaven is the utterance of an
Episcopalian, while Thank Heavens, more likely comes from a Baptist. In
neither case is there any actual confusion about how many Heavens there
really are. Nor, in users of the expression, is there much doubt that a
Heaven of some kind exists.
But the expression itself isn't much in use by anyone under the age of about
60, other than by those few who have eschewed the trend toward strong speech
that has characterised American English and English English since the end of
WW II.
My favorite use of Heavens! as an expression of surprise: a family game of
Trivial Pursuit. My sister read off the definition of menage a trois on the
back of the TP card: "Sex between three persons."
"Heavens!" my mother exclaimed. At the age of 70, she had never dreamed of
such behavior.
AB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Donald B. Johnson" <chtodel@gss.ucsb.edu>
To: <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 2:10 PM
Subject: Re: Fwd: TT-10,13, 14,15 (fwd) thank heavens
> Akiko,
> I think it was Carolyn Kunin who called our attention to the distinction
> between "heaven" and "sky" - which may not occur in the romance
languages.
> Are there two different words in Russian? I don´t think there is a
> distinction in German, either.
> Is this worth pursuing?
> Jansy
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Donald B. Johnson" <chtodel@gss.ucsb.edu>
> To: <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 1:57 PM
> Subject: Re: Fwd: TT-10,13, 14,15 (fwd) thank heavens
>
>
> > Thank you all who posted on "thank heavens." I did not think the idiom
> would
> > be so tricky, but it is very interesting.
> >
> > I wonder which could be possible:
> > 1) VN found "Thank Heavens!" natural as Don, even if used by Julia, a
New
> > Yorker, and did not accept the editor's suggestion that it be changed to
> > "Thank Heaven!"
> > 2) VN found it wrong as Eric, or unnatural for Julia, and intentionally
> made
> > it "Heavens" to draw the reader's attention to it so that the reader
would
> > ask "Who is narrating?"
> >
> > If 2) is the case, I think it is probably Armande rather than Mr. R. who
> > speaks. As Carolyn and an anonymous contributor taught, she might say
> > "heavens" thinking about the word in plural like "cieux." It is too
> > difficult for me, but an astute reader could be aware of it as it comes
> > after "l'Erale Tribune." As Mary wrote, Mr. R. might have misheard or
> > misquoted it, though.
> >
> > I could not find the idiom in VN's other novels. Does he use it
anywhere?
> >
> > Akiko
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Donald B. Johnson" <chtodel@gss.ucsb.edu>
> > To: <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 4:49 AM
> > Subject: Re: Fwd: TT-10,13, 14,15 (fwd) thank heavens
> >
> >
> > > Dear Akiko:
> > >
> > > This may be regional or generational, but Thank heavens definitely
> > sounds
> > > wrong to me. I would have said it is a confusion of various idioms --
> > i.e.
> > > heavens to Betsy! But a Google search turns up many hits, including
the
> > > Dixie Chicks' song Thank heavens for Dale Evans. I still think,
> though --
> > > and this is in contrast to Don -- that in the context "My former
> > > stepfather, thank Heavens" -- the plural is "off", and that "Thank
> > heavens"
> > > is more likely in a longer sentence. But I'm not as sure as I was...
> > > Eric
> > >
> > >
> > > >Dear Eric,
> > > >
> > > >Thanks very much for resending your comments.
> > > >
> > > >I am still puzzled by "thank heavens." I understand the idiom is
> > originally
> > > >"thank heaven," but is it wrong as "to make a story short" is? Some
> > English
> > > >dictionaries give "thank heaven(s)." Cobuild English Dictionary for
> > Advanced
> > > >Learners and Longman Advanced American Dictionary (probably more)
> contain
> > > >"thank God, heavens, goodness," omitting "thank heaven." Does "thank
> > > >heavens" sound strange to most native speakers of English?
> > > >
> > > >Best,
> > > >Akiko
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> on chapter 13
> > > >> 45 - "My former stepfather, thank Heavens" Julia is parodying R.,
> "who
> > > >> had an exasperating way not only of trotting out hackneyed formulas
> in
> > his
> > > >> would-be colloquial thickly accented English, but also of getting
> them
> > > >> wrong)"
> > > >
> > > >> Eric
> > > >
> > > >----- End forwarded message -----
> > > >
> > > >EDCOMMENT. To my ear, "Thank heavenS" seems more natural. "Thank
> Heaven"
> > > >seems
> > > >to call for some specific object, i.e., "Thank Heaven for little
girls"
> > as
> > > >Maurice Chevalier (& HH?) used to sing.
> > >
> > > ----- End forwarded message -----
> >
> > ----- End forwarded message -----
> >
> >
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----
----- End forwarded message -----