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Fw: [NABOKV-L] [ THOUGHTS] Parthenocissus creepers
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Dear List,
Victor Fet wrote:" There seem to be some confusion on Parthenocissus species identity, geographic range, and VN's awareness of virginal reproduction..." and he offered corrections and comments on "Boston ivy" and "Virginia creeper...five-leaved ivy, Woodbine" to conclude that "we do NOT know which of the two abovementioned species adorned the walls of Wordsmith Hall. He informs that "Parthenocissus has been widespread as decorative in culture in Russia ... and VN must have been well familiar with it, and its Latin name." but "Although "Parthenocissus" is called 'maiden grape' in Russian ('devichii vinograd') and belongs to grape family (Vitaceae), it is NOT edible or used for wine-making...Parthenocissus indeed is sometimes called "pyatilistnyi plyushch" in Russian, but its much more common name is "devichii vinograd." Fet also noted that "Partheno-" in "Parthenocissus" is indeed an obvious connection to virginal reproduction ("parthenogenesis", reproduction of virginal females without fertilization by males).Parthenogenesis is a widespread, well-documented reproductive mode in many insects, including Lepidoptera."
I was particularly interested in how the name was rendered in Russian:
(a) in his translation of PF "Ilyin has "Plyushchevyi Kholl" (= Ivy Hall)"; in her translation of PF "Véra Nabokov has a transliterated version ("Partenosissus"), which follows English pronunciation of the Latin name, and suspiciously reminds of 'missus' or even 'sissies' which resembles an additional Kinbote-pun."
(b) Ilyin makes the same choice for Waindell's "ivied galleries" (Pnin 1, 1) translated as "uvitye plyushchom". Victor's St. Bart, Mass., was "glossily coated on one side with American ivy" (Pnin 4, 4). Here, Ilyin recognized Virginia creeper and correctly translated "American ivy" as "pyatilistnyi plyushch" ("five-leaved ivy", = Virginia Creeper, P. quinquefolia).
Fet corrected JM when she incorrectly asserted that "it is Boston, not Virginia, which lies in the vicinity of Wordsmith.", since " We know (from Kinbote but he has no reason to lie here) that New Wye is "at latitude of Palermo", i.e. about 39°N.Palermo is at 39°26′18″N. Within Appalachia (i.e. Appalachian Mts.), the closest model is Martinsburg in West Virginia, at 39°27'N, which is much closer to Virginia than to Boston.".
Not only J. Friedman, also Matt Roth agrees with him: "Despite the "New England" location cited by Odon (via Kinbote), all other information--including comments made by VN in an interview--point to New Wye being somewhere in the mountains of northern Virginia or West Virginia. He reminds us: "We should, however, never fail to forget that ultimately New Wye is a fiction and can't truly be found on any map."
Jerry Friedman concluded: "I regret to report that cedar waxwings don't eat Virginia creeper berries...I can't find any mention of them eating Boston ivy berries,
which means they probably don't...I must say "Parthenocissus" never reminded me of the slang "grapevine", though they're related, but I did enjoy Jansy's suggestion of a connection with the French "jaseur" and with the faculty gossip that Kinbote decries." Later on he added: Highland County is "Virginia's Switzerland"...I like the idea of Nabokov in Switzerland's Switzerland setting his story in Virginia's, and including scenes in Switzerland so the two would mirror each other, and this is indirectly reasserted by Matt Roth: "It strikes me as remarkable that we all seem to have arrived at the same destination by different routes. Brian Boyd says in NPF that VN many times provides multiple ways of reaching those conclusions he most intends us to find."
Jansy Mello: Heartfelt thanks to all of you, mainly because you were not only extremely helpful with your information and "urls" but also because you considered the spirit of my comments on the Parthenocissus issue.
I had no intention to offer anything new or revolutionary but planned to bring together data already collected in order to encourage the development of what is already registered in the Nabokov-L archives.
Imho the List is also a "work in progress", not only a receptive nest where yesterday's egg are abandoned...
Matt, you agree with B.Boyd that "VN provides multiple ways of reaching those conclusions he most intends us to find" and so do I. But in my eyes many of the successful indicators are not always deliberately planted by VN. They are the result of the mysterious workings of language and of several serendipitous coincidences ( perhaps VN is, indeed, a conjurer with words...).
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Victor Fet wrote:" There seem to be some confusion on Parthenocissus species identity, geographic range, and VN's awareness of virginal reproduction..." and he offered corrections and comments on "Boston ivy" and "Virginia creeper...five-leaved ivy, Woodbine" to conclude that "we do NOT know which of the two abovementioned species adorned the walls of Wordsmith Hall. He informs that "Parthenocissus has been widespread as decorative in culture in Russia ... and VN must have been well familiar with it, and its Latin name." but "Although "Parthenocissus" is called 'maiden grape' in Russian ('devichii vinograd') and belongs to grape family (Vitaceae), it is NOT edible or used for wine-making...Parthenocissus indeed is sometimes called "pyatilistnyi plyushch" in Russian, but its much more common name is "devichii vinograd." Fet also noted that "Partheno-" in "Parthenocissus" is indeed an obvious connection to virginal reproduction ("parthenogenesis", reproduction of virginal females without fertilization by males).Parthenogenesis is a widespread, well-documented reproductive mode in many insects, including Lepidoptera."
I was particularly interested in how the name was rendered in Russian:
(a) in his translation of PF "Ilyin has "Plyushchevyi Kholl" (= Ivy Hall)"; in her translation of PF "Véra Nabokov has a transliterated version ("Partenosissus"), which follows English pronunciation of the Latin name, and suspiciously reminds of 'missus' or even 'sissies' which resembles an additional Kinbote-pun."
(b) Ilyin makes the same choice for Waindell's "ivied galleries" (Pnin 1, 1) translated as "uvitye plyushchom". Victor's St. Bart, Mass., was "glossily coated on one side with American ivy" (Pnin 4, 4). Here, Ilyin recognized Virginia creeper and correctly translated "American ivy" as "pyatilistnyi plyushch" ("five-leaved ivy", = Virginia Creeper, P. quinquefolia).
Fet corrected JM when she incorrectly asserted that "it is Boston, not Virginia, which lies in the vicinity of Wordsmith.", since " We know (from Kinbote but he has no reason to lie here) that New Wye is "at latitude of Palermo", i.e. about 39°N.Palermo is at 39°26′18″N. Within Appalachia (i.e. Appalachian Mts.), the closest model is Martinsburg in West Virginia, at 39°27'N, which is much closer to Virginia than to Boston.".
Not only J. Friedman, also Matt Roth agrees with him: "Despite the "New England" location cited by Odon (via Kinbote), all other information--including comments made by VN in an interview--point to New Wye being somewhere in the mountains of northern Virginia or West Virginia. He reminds us: "We should, however, never fail to forget that ultimately New Wye is a fiction and can't truly be found on any map."
Jerry Friedman concluded: "I regret to report that cedar waxwings don't eat Virginia creeper berries...I can't find any mention of them eating Boston ivy berries,
which means they probably don't...I must say "Parthenocissus" never reminded me of the slang "grapevine", though they're related, but I did enjoy Jansy's suggestion of a connection with the French "jaseur" and with the faculty gossip that Kinbote decries." Later on he added: Highland County is "Virginia's Switzerland"...I like the idea of Nabokov in Switzerland's Switzerland setting his story in Virginia's, and including scenes in Switzerland so the two would mirror each other, and this is indirectly reasserted by Matt Roth: "It strikes me as remarkable that we all seem to have arrived at the same destination by different routes. Brian Boyd says in NPF that VN many times provides multiple ways of reaching those conclusions he most intends us to find."
Jansy Mello: Heartfelt thanks to all of you, mainly because you were not only extremely helpful with your information and "urls" but also because you considered the spirit of my comments on the Parthenocissus issue.
I had no intention to offer anything new or revolutionary but planned to bring together data already collected in order to encourage the development of what is already registered in the Nabokov-L archives.
Imho the List is also a "work in progress", not only a receptive nest where yesterday's egg are abandoned...
Matt, you agree with B.Boyd that "VN provides multiple ways of reaching those conclusions he most intends us to find" and so do I. But in my eyes many of the successful indicators are not always deliberately planted by VN. They are the result of the mysterious workings of language and of several serendipitous coincidences ( perhaps VN is, indeed, a conjurer with words...).
Search the archive: http://listserv.ucsb.edu/archives/nabokv-l.html
Search archive with Google:
http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:listserv.ucsb.edu&HL=en
Contact the Editors: mailto:nabokv-l@utk.edu,nabokv-l@holycross.edu
Visit Zembla: http://www.libraries.psu.edu/nabokov/zembla.htm
View Nabokv-L policies: http://web.utk.edu/~sblackwe/EDNote.htm