Subject
Re: RES: [NABOKV-L] VNbIBLIOGRAPHY: ??? ?86,
????? ??????????? RE VN & CHESS
????? ??????????? RE VN & CHESS
From
Date
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*Shatranj,* the ancient Persian predecessor of chess, had elephants instead
of rooks, in the 7th century, and the queens were far less powerful than in
the modern leader of the attack in a chess game, which google usually
translates as "party" from the Russian. The game did not evolve into its
current "Western" form until the 16th century.
On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 1:57 AM, Jansy <jansy@aetern.us> wrote:
> *Jerome Katsell*: I don't believe "kafka" means raven in Czech. The usual
> for raven is "hravan,"
>
> and "vrána" is used for crow. There's also "hravan polní," which means
> rook, the bird. The other rook, the chess rook/castle is "vĕž". (sent off
> List).
>
>
>
> *JM:* Thank you very much, Jerome. Translations are tricky, indeed. The
> book I'm reading is a direct translation from the Japanese into Portuguese:
> the word the translator chose is 'corvo', ie, the generic 'crow'.
>
> Poe's poem is usually translated as "O Corvo". The chess piece, 'rook' in
> Portuguese, is "torre" ( 'tower'). Pawn is “peão” (not really the same
> image as in English, also with the designation ‘knight’). Chess pieces, in
> various languages, must have distinct names, unlike the English indicators (
> as in “Sebastian Knight”, or Rook/Castle in Portuguese) and I wonder if this
> point was also explored by Nabokov.
>
>
>
> Anyway, from what I understood from one or two garbled sentences from the
> google/Norquist text, Nabokov denies that he’s employed chess-moves to
> structure his plots. It seems that he also gives great importance to the
> plot (even in poetry) and this is at variance with his statements in LEL and
> in ‘Gogol.’ (cannot remember the quotes).* ?And what about the lines about
> “elephants”???
>
>
>
>
>
> ………………………………
>
> · I didn’t search for the quote Jim Twiggs asked from SB (I’m sure
> others will help, if not SB himself) because I had to finish the Murakami
> book first…
> A hunch: would the indicated word by Nabokov have been “imagination”?
> btw: Is there any article comparing Nabokov’s theory about “imagination”
> (memory/time) and P.B.Shelley’s?
>
>
>
>
>
> *De:* Vladimir Nabokov Forum [mailto:NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU] *Em nome
> de *Jansy
> *Enviada em:* sábado, 14 de agosto de 2010 21:57
> *Para:* NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
> *Assunto:* [NABOKV-L] RES: [NABOKV-L] VNbIBLIOGRAPHY: ??? ?86, ?????
> ??????????? RE VN & CHESS
>
>
>
> *Steve Norquist:* This is probably going to look funny to those who are
> fluent in both Russian and English, but here is google's translation of the
> submitted text into English…
>
> *JM*: I tried to read the automatic translation, but it was a torture. One
> word stood out, at first, related to chess. “Rook”.
>
> I had just asked the list about “raven” (apparently, a translation from the
> Czech ”kafka”). Ravens and rooks are both “corvus”
>
> The *Common Raven* (*Corvus corax*), also known as the *Northern Raven*,
> is a large, all-black passerine <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passerine>bird in the crow
> family <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvidae>;
>
> The *Rook* (*Corvus frugilegus*) is a member of the Corvidae<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvidae>family in the
> passerine <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passerine> order of birds. Named
> by Carl Linnaeus <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Linnaeus> in 1758,[2]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rook_%28bird%29#cite_note-1>the species name
> *frugilegus* is Latin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin> for
> "food-gathering".
>
> Can anyone inform me if “kafka” indicates the raven or the rook in czech? (
> still trusting novelist Murakami’s information).
>
>
> A second question ( related to the original in Russian in the translation
> provided by Google/Norquist): what does “elephant” mean in the poem? (cf.
> the lines reproduced below)
>
> "But lingers still dwarf.
>
> And then pushed nail color of iodine
>
> figure. Yes! He donates elephant
>
> magic checkmate in four moves.
>
> II
>
> Movement of rhymes and dancers cruise
>
> is a chess problem. Show...
>
>
>
> Crows, ravens, rooks and elephants…?
>
> A third item: TOOL’s “Philidor Savage” (certainly not a dwarf!) could his
> name indicate something related to a chess move?
>
>
> Search the archive<http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:listserv.ucsb.edu&HL=en%0d%0a>
>
> Contact the Editors <nabokv-l@utk.edu,nabokv-l@holycross.edu>
>
> Visit "Nabokov Online Journal" <http://www.nabokovonline.com>
>
> Visit Zembla <http://www.libraries.psu.edu/nabokov/zembla.htm>
>
> View Nabokv-L Policies <http://web.utk.edu/%7Esblackwe/EDNote.htm>
>
> Manage subscription options <http://listserv.ucsb.edu/>
>
> All private editorial communications, without exception, are read by both
> co-editors.
> Search the archive<http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:listserv.ucsb.edu&HL=en> Contact
> the Editors <nabokv-l@utk.edu,nabokv-l@holycross.edu> Visit "Nabokov
> Online Journal" <http://www.nabokovonline.com> Visit Zembla<http://www.libraries.psu.edu/nabokov/zembla.htm> View
> Nabokv-L Policies <http://web.utk.edu/%7Esblackwe/EDNote.htm> Manage
> subscription options <http://listserv.ucsb.edu/>
>
> All private editorial communications, without exception, are read by both
> co-editors.
>
--
Norky
Search archive with Google:
http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:listserv.ucsb.edu&HL=en
Contact the Editors: mailto:nabokv-l@utk.edu,nabokv-l@holycross.edu
Visit Zembla: http://www.libraries.psu.edu/nabokov/zembla.htm
View Nabokv-L policies: http://web.utk.edu/~sblackwe/EDNote.htm
Visit "Nabokov Online Journal:" http://www.nabokovonline.com
Manage subscription options: http://listserv.ucsb.edu/
of rooks, in the 7th century, and the queens were far less powerful than in
the modern leader of the attack in a chess game, which google usually
translates as "party" from the Russian. The game did not evolve into its
current "Western" form until the 16th century.
On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 1:57 AM, Jansy <jansy@aetern.us> wrote:
> *Jerome Katsell*: I don't believe "kafka" means raven in Czech. The usual
> for raven is "hravan,"
>
> and "vrána" is used for crow. There's also "hravan polní," which means
> rook, the bird. The other rook, the chess rook/castle is "vĕž". (sent off
> List).
>
>
>
> *JM:* Thank you very much, Jerome. Translations are tricky, indeed. The
> book I'm reading is a direct translation from the Japanese into Portuguese:
> the word the translator chose is 'corvo', ie, the generic 'crow'.
>
> Poe's poem is usually translated as "O Corvo". The chess piece, 'rook' in
> Portuguese, is "torre" ( 'tower'). Pawn is “peão” (not really the same
> image as in English, also with the designation ‘knight’). Chess pieces, in
> various languages, must have distinct names, unlike the English indicators (
> as in “Sebastian Knight”, or Rook/Castle in Portuguese) and I wonder if this
> point was also explored by Nabokov.
>
>
>
> Anyway, from what I understood from one or two garbled sentences from the
> google/Norquist text, Nabokov denies that he’s employed chess-moves to
> structure his plots. It seems that he also gives great importance to the
> plot (even in poetry) and this is at variance with his statements in LEL and
> in ‘Gogol.’ (cannot remember the quotes).* ?And what about the lines about
> “elephants”???
>
>
>
>
>
> ………………………………
>
> · I didn’t search for the quote Jim Twiggs asked from SB (I’m sure
> others will help, if not SB himself) because I had to finish the Murakami
> book first…
> A hunch: would the indicated word by Nabokov have been “imagination”?
> btw: Is there any article comparing Nabokov’s theory about “imagination”
> (memory/time) and P.B.Shelley’s?
>
>
>
>
>
> *De:* Vladimir Nabokov Forum [mailto:NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU] *Em nome
> de *Jansy
> *Enviada em:* sábado, 14 de agosto de 2010 21:57
> *Para:* NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
> *Assunto:* [NABOKV-L] RES: [NABOKV-L] VNbIBLIOGRAPHY: ??? ?86, ?????
> ??????????? RE VN & CHESS
>
>
>
> *Steve Norquist:* This is probably going to look funny to those who are
> fluent in both Russian and English, but here is google's translation of the
> submitted text into English…
>
> *JM*: I tried to read the automatic translation, but it was a torture. One
> word stood out, at first, related to chess. “Rook”.
>
> I had just asked the list about “raven” (apparently, a translation from the
> Czech ”kafka”). Ravens and rooks are both “corvus”
>
> The *Common Raven* (*Corvus corax*), also known as the *Northern Raven*,
> is a large, all-black passerine <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passerine>bird in the crow
> family <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvidae>;
>
> The *Rook* (*Corvus frugilegus*) is a member of the Corvidae<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvidae>family in the
> passerine <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passerine> order of birds. Named
> by Carl Linnaeus <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Linnaeus> in 1758,[2]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rook_%28bird%29#cite_note-1>the species name
> *frugilegus* is Latin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin> for
> "food-gathering".
>
> Can anyone inform me if “kafka” indicates the raven or the rook in czech? (
> still trusting novelist Murakami’s information).
>
>
> A second question ( related to the original in Russian in the translation
> provided by Google/Norquist): what does “elephant” mean in the poem? (cf.
> the lines reproduced below)
>
> "But lingers still dwarf.
>
> And then pushed nail color of iodine
>
> figure. Yes! He donates elephant
>
> magic checkmate in four moves.
>
> II
>
> Movement of rhymes and dancers cruise
>
> is a chess problem. Show...
>
>
>
> Crows, ravens, rooks and elephants…?
>
> A third item: TOOL’s “Philidor Savage” (certainly not a dwarf!) could his
> name indicate something related to a chess move?
>
>
> Search the archive<http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:listserv.ucsb.edu&HL=en%0d%0a>
>
> Contact the Editors <nabokv-l@utk.edu,nabokv-l@holycross.edu>
>
> Visit "Nabokov Online Journal" <http://www.nabokovonline.com>
>
> Visit Zembla <http://www.libraries.psu.edu/nabokov/zembla.htm>
>
> View Nabokv-L Policies <http://web.utk.edu/%7Esblackwe/EDNote.htm>
>
> Manage subscription options <http://listserv.ucsb.edu/>
>
> All private editorial communications, without exception, are read by both
> co-editors.
> Search the archive<http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:listserv.ucsb.edu&HL=en> Contact
> the Editors <nabokv-l@utk.edu,nabokv-l@holycross.edu> Visit "Nabokov
> Online Journal" <http://www.nabokovonline.com> Visit Zembla<http://www.libraries.psu.edu/nabokov/zembla.htm> View
> Nabokv-L Policies <http://web.utk.edu/%7Esblackwe/EDNote.htm> Manage
> subscription options <http://listserv.ucsb.edu/>
>
> All private editorial communications, without exception, are read by both
> co-editors.
>
--
Norky
Search archive with Google:
http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:listserv.ucsb.edu&HL=en
Contact the Editors: mailto:nabokv-l@utk.edu,nabokv-l@holycross.edu
Visit Zembla: http://www.libraries.psu.edu/nabokov/zembla.htm
View Nabokv-L policies: http://web.utk.edu/~sblackwe/EDNote.htm
Visit "Nabokov Online Journal:" http://www.nabokovonline.com
Manage subscription options: http://listserv.ucsb.edu/