Subject
Fw: Fw: alternate PALE FIRE interpretation reply
From
Date
Body
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Friedman" <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com>
To: "Vladimir Nabokov Forum" <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: alternate PALE FIRE interpretation reply
> ----------------- Message requiring your approval (87
lines) ------------------
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Carolyn Kunin" <chaiselongue@earthlink.net>
> > To: "Vladimir Nabokov Forum" <NABOKV-L@listserv.ucsb.edu>
> > Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 8:44 AM
> > Subject: alternate interpretation reply
> >
> >
> > > This message was originally submitted by
> > chaiselongue@EARTHLINK.NET to
> > the
> > > NABOKV-L list at LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU. >
> > > ----------------- Message requiring your approval (32
> > lines) ------------------
> > > Thank you Mr Friedman for your response. I am very much looking for
> > > objections and questions to this interpretation.
> > >
> > > You are right about the difference in hair color between Disa and
> > Sybil. I
> > > mistakenly thought Sybil was blond and took Disa to be the opposite as
> > would
> > > be appropriate in Zembla (just as Kinbote is straight in Appalachia
> > and
> > > Kinbote is bent sinister in Zembla). Like you, I have to think it
> > possible
> > > that her hair is now white (time is very problematic in this novel!) I
> > will
> > > check for a reference.
>
> Did I say that about white hair? Anyway, I know I phrased my comment
> about hair color wrong. I should have said that Kinbote's descriptions of
> Disa in the note to line 149 ("an angry young virgin with coal-black hair
> and ice-blue eyes") and 443 ("'a compass rose of ivory with four parts of
> ebony'") conflict with his statement later in that second note that
> Shade's description of Sybil "represented a plain unretouched likeness" of
> Disa, as Sybil has "dark silky brown" hair. This looks like Kinbote's
> revision of his fantasy, maybe paralleling young Gordon's mutable garment.
>
> > > Dates are important clues in this novel. Aunt Maude's lifespan
> > coincides
> > > with the Countess de Fyler's. This suggests that they are the same
> > person.
>
> They can't be the same person because the Countess de Fyler isn't "real".
> But thanks for pointing out that Kinbote may have gotten the Countess's
> death year from Aunt Maud's, and that he may associate them. (Do we know
> the Countess's birth year? Fifalda and Fleur were born around 1918 and
> 1919 respectively according to the note to line 71, so if the Countess was
> born in 1869 she would have been around 49 and 50 when her daughters were
> born--not impossible, especially in a fantasy, but not likely.)
>
> > > You are also right that Shade is rarely given an honorific (nor is
> > Kinbote).
> > > "Wives, Mr Shade, are forgetful" is the first. Line 727 of the poem
> > "No,
> > Mr.
> > > Shade ... just half a shade." Again, unimportant and could be
> > explained
> > > away, but if we take the index seriously, it certainly is a possible
> > clue.
> > >
> > > Actually, what put me onto this reading was the discovery that Shade
> > had
> > had
> > > another child, born before Aunt Maude's illness (referred to inline
> > 90,
> > and
> > > described in lines 682-684).
>
> I see the possible reference in line 90--Kinbote calls attention to the
> oddness of taking "the next babe" as referring to Hazel--but surely
> "682-684" is a typo.
>
> > The ghost of his mother (described in
> > lines
> > > 685-688) "haunts Lit 202" (the foreword).
>
> The ghost of Caroline Shade is the stunning blonde in the black leotard?
> ...
>
> Jerry Friedman
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
> http://finance.yahoo.com
From: "Jerry Friedman" <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com>
To: "Vladimir Nabokov Forum" <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: alternate PALE FIRE interpretation reply
> ----------------- Message requiring your approval (87
lines) ------------------
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Carolyn Kunin" <chaiselongue@earthlink.net>
> > To: "Vladimir Nabokov Forum" <NABOKV-L@listserv.ucsb.edu>
> > Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 8:44 AM
> > Subject: alternate interpretation reply
> >
> >
> > > This message was originally submitted by
> > chaiselongue@EARTHLINK.NET to
> > the
> > > NABOKV-L list at LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU. >
> > > ----------------- Message requiring your approval (32
> > lines) ------------------
> > > Thank you Mr Friedman for your response. I am very much looking for
> > > objections and questions to this interpretation.
> > >
> > > You are right about the difference in hair color between Disa and
> > Sybil. I
> > > mistakenly thought Sybil was blond and took Disa to be the opposite as
> > would
> > > be appropriate in Zembla (just as Kinbote is straight in Appalachia
> > and
> > > Kinbote is bent sinister in Zembla). Like you, I have to think it
> > possible
> > > that her hair is now white (time is very problematic in this novel!) I
> > will
> > > check for a reference.
>
> Did I say that about white hair? Anyway, I know I phrased my comment
> about hair color wrong. I should have said that Kinbote's descriptions of
> Disa in the note to line 149 ("an angry young virgin with coal-black hair
> and ice-blue eyes") and 443 ("'a compass rose of ivory with four parts of
> ebony'") conflict with his statement later in that second note that
> Shade's description of Sybil "represented a plain unretouched likeness" of
> Disa, as Sybil has "dark silky brown" hair. This looks like Kinbote's
> revision of his fantasy, maybe paralleling young Gordon's mutable garment.
>
> > > Dates are important clues in this novel. Aunt Maude's lifespan
> > coincides
> > > with the Countess de Fyler's. This suggests that they are the same
> > person.
>
> They can't be the same person because the Countess de Fyler isn't "real".
> But thanks for pointing out that Kinbote may have gotten the Countess's
> death year from Aunt Maud's, and that he may associate them. (Do we know
> the Countess's birth year? Fifalda and Fleur were born around 1918 and
> 1919 respectively according to the note to line 71, so if the Countess was
> born in 1869 she would have been around 49 and 50 when her daughters were
> born--not impossible, especially in a fantasy, but not likely.)
>
> > > You are also right that Shade is rarely given an honorific (nor is
> > Kinbote).
> > > "Wives, Mr Shade, are forgetful" is the first. Line 727 of the poem
> > "No,
> > Mr.
> > > Shade ... just half a shade." Again, unimportant and could be
> > explained
> > > away, but if we take the index seriously, it certainly is a possible
> > clue.
> > >
> > > Actually, what put me onto this reading was the discovery that Shade
> > had
> > had
> > > another child, born before Aunt Maude's illness (referred to inline
> > 90,
> > and
> > > described in lines 682-684).
>
> I see the possible reference in line 90--Kinbote calls attention to the
> oddness of taking "the next babe" as referring to Hazel--but surely
> "682-684" is a typo.
>
> > The ghost of his mother (described in
> > lines
> > > 685-688) "haunts Lit 202" (the foreword).
>
> The ghost of Caroline Shade is the stunning blonde in the black leotard?
> ...
>
> Jerry Friedman
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
> http://finance.yahoo.com