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Fw: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3440 PALE FIRE Canto I
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From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 11:33 AM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3440
>
> pynchon-l-digest Thursday, July 24 2003 Volume 02 : Number
3440
>
>
>
> Re: NPPF - Canto One - more notes
> Re: NPPF Canto 1: 1-4
> Re: NPPF - Canto One - more notes
> RE: CANTO ONE: "slain/By"
> Re: NPPF - Canto One - more notes
> Re: NPPF CANTO ONE: Maud PT 1 of 2
> Re: NPPF - Nabokov & Time
> Re: NPPF - Canto One - more notes
> RE: CANTO ONE: "slain/By"
> Re: NPPF - Nabokov & Time
> Re: CANTO ONE: "slain/By"
> Re: NPPF - Nabokov & Time
> CANTO ONE: Is That A Real Poncho Or A Sears Poncho?
> Re: CANTO ONE: "slain/By"
> re: Zoyd's Work
> NPPF: Playlist Addition
> RE: CANTO ONE: "slain/By"
> RE: CANTO ONE: "slain/By"
> Re: CANTO ONE: doctor Colt
> Re: CANTO ONE: doctor Colt
> re: Zoyd's Work
> Re: NPPF Canto 1: 1-4 some random notes
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 06:34:22 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Canto One - more notes
>
> - --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> >
> > ln 62: "Of the stiff vane so often visited": see Nabokov's "The Vane
> Sisters". From Boyd: "the ghosts of two dead women waylay the narrator's
> attention through tricks of light and shade, and without his realizing,
guide
> his actions and words, even as he expresses explicitly the hopelessness of
his
> attempt to discern some glimpse of the sisters beyond death." (Boyd, _The
> Magic of Artistic Discovery_, 138)
>
> Has anyone here read "The Vane Sisters?" This theme of ghosts guiding the
> thoughts of an unaware living narrator/writer is the heart of the Boyd II
> interpretation of PF. I haven't read all of his "Shade and Shape in Pale
Fire"
> (but I will). What I have read of it seems hopelessly muddled by its
seeing
> both Shade's poem (maybe even his death) as being guided from the beyond,
and
> then seeing him as doing the same thing to Kinbote as he writes the
Commentary.
> I'll read the whole thing before I say any more about it.
>
> David Morris
>
> __________________________________
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 06:54:40 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Malignd <malignd@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 1: 1-4
>
> Rob Jackson:
>
> <<It doesn't work because the series of consonant
> blends creates a dissonant effect which, as a
> soundscape, doesn't correlate in any way to the scene
> or attempted mood. And that "smudge" goes with "wax"
> (rather than the actual remnant of bird) isn't poetic;
> it's corny.>>
>
> Two things:
>
> The smudge doesn't go with wax or with remnant of
> bird. Shade compares himself to the shadow of the
> waxwing; "smudge of ashen fluff" is then, in context,
> an expansion of "shadow."
>
> You write, re VL:
>
> <<... this sort of thing is criticised by Fredric
> Jameson (he calls it "parody that has lost its sense
> of humour", which is, after all, a rather subjective
> judgement -- I find Pynchon's send-ups, if nothing
> else, quite hilarious).>>
>
> You should bear this in mind when discussing VN's
> (Shade's) poem. Your comment that "the series of
> consonant blends creates a dissonant effect which, as
> a soundscape, doesn't correlate in any way to the
> scene or attempted mood," is "a rather subjective
> judgement," although you apparently don't see it as
> such. Noting the series of consonants is objective;
> saying it doesn't correlate is not. Calling it corny,
> certainly isn't.
>
> In large, I think your argument that VN intended
> Shade's poem as less than grand is tenable, even
> probable, certainly interesting, and quite
> unavoidable. But I think the poem is often far better
> than you allow and your addressing the argument as a
> closed case, insisting the poem is simply second rate
> and that such can be demonstrated as if with test tube
> and caliper ... It's just hectoring.
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:02:39 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Canto One - more notes
>
> - --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> > ln 108: "Twinned Iris":
> >
> > (OED) "A rainbow, esp. (freq. Iris) personified; a many-coloured
refraction
> of light from drops of water; a rainbow-like or iridescent appearance; a
> coloured halo; a combination of brilliant colours."
> >
> > (OED) "Photography & Cinematography. In full iris diaphragm. An
adjustable
> diaphragm of thin overlapping plates for regulating the size of a control
hole,
> esp. for admitting light to a lens or lens system." (i.e. another
spiral....)
> >
> > Iris, goddess of the rainbow and messenger of Olympus; see Note to 130
for
> Iris Acht and a slew of twinning.
>
> http://www.sfheart.com/iris.html
> "Among the duties of the Greek Goddess Iris was that of leading the souls
of
> dead women to the Elysian Fields. In token of that faith the Greeks
planted
> purple Iris on the graves of women. Iris was the messenger of the gods and
the
> personification of the Rainbow. The Greek symbolism for the iris comes
down to
> us by word of mouth in the form of a myth that was old in Homer's day.
>
> [...]
>
> Leaping forward through time we know that the Fleur-de-lis as a
conventional
> form long predated its association with the Kings of France. There are
various
> legends of how the iris came to represent the French monarchy but most
center
> around two historical incidents separated in time by six hundred years.
Clovis
> who in 496 A.D. is said to have abandoned the three toads on his banner in
> favor of the fleur-de-lis. His Christian Queen Clotilda, had long sought
to
> convert her heathen husband but he always ignored her plea. Then faced
with a
> formidable army of Alamanni, the Germanic tribe invading his kingdom, he
told
> his wife that if he won the coming battle he would admit her God was
strongest
> and be baptized. He did win and the toads whose symbolism would be most
> interesting to know disappeared.
>
> The second incident occurred in 1147. Louis VII of France had a dream
that
> convinced him to adopt the purple iris as his device shortly before
setting out
> for his ill-fated crusade. Thus the fleur-de-lis became the symbol on the
> banner of France for the next six hundred years. Or twelve hundred years
if we
> take it from the time of Clovis that the iris became the symbol for a
great
> nation.
>
> The iris was so powerful a symbol of the French kings that the
> Revolutionaries in 1789 set out to totally obliterate it the symbol of the
> hated monarchy. It was chipped off buildings and torn from draperies. Men
were
> guillotined for wearing a fleur-de-lis on their clothes or as jewelry. The
> revolution succeeded and the symbol of the fleur-de-lis is only a memory
now
> and is considered merely a conventionalized ornament or decoration.
>
>
http://www.art.com/asp/sp-asp/_/PD--10072169/Iris___Keeper_of_the_Rainbow.htm?RFID=633434
>
> Also:
>
> http://www.stlukeseye.com/anatomy/Iris.asp
>
> "The colored part of the eye is called the iris. It controls light levels
> inside the eye similar to the aperture on a camera. The round opening in
the
> center of the iris is called the pupil. The iris is embedded with tiny
muscles
> that dilate (widen) and constrict (narrow) the pupil size.
>
> The sphincter muscle lies around the very edge of the pupil. In bright
light,
> the sphincter contracts, causing the pupil to constrict. The dilator
muscle
> runs radially through the iris, like spokes on a wheel. This muscle
dilates
> the eye in dim lighting.
>
> The iris is flat and divides the front of the eye (anterior chamber) from
the
> back of the eye (posterior chamber). Its color comes from microscopic
pigment
> cells called melanin. The color, texture, and patterns of each person's
iris
> are as unique as a fingerprint."
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:55:49 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: CANTO ONE: "slain/By"
>
> >
> > "slain / By the false azure in the windowpane,"
> > "slain / By the feigned remoteness of the windowpane,"
> >
>
>
> I think VN had a lot of fun with the numbers of the poem, since he could
> count on them being the same in any edition (unlike page numbers). Many
> numbers in the Commentary are linked to line numbers in more ways than as
> cross-references.
>
> From hacking with the numbers in Note to Line 130 (with which I'll be
> flooding the list when we get there), I find something possibly
interesting
> on ln 131 (the reprise "I was the shadow of the waxwing slain"). In K's
> Commentary, the numbers 1888 and 1881 become visually important: 1888 as
an
> infinite serious beyond a fixed point (wall infinity infinity infinity),
> i.e. the future; and 1881 as infinity between two fixed barriers (wall
> infinity infinity wall), i.e. life. But then the number 3 also takes on
> some more significance as 1/2 infinity -- 3 as visually half of 8. So the
> number 131, as in line 131, becomes 1/2 infinity between two fixed points
> (wall 1/2infinity wall).
>
> What the hell does that mean?
>
> Maybe it's worth remembering that the window is attached to a house.
There
> is a good deal of personal involvement with this house for Shade: he has
> lived his entire life there, grew up in it, brought his new wife to it,
his
> newborn baby, wrote poetry upstairs, and while sitting there learned that
> his daughter was gone. It is in a way a container for his life -- the
> external equivalent of himself -- and a record of that life (in slight
> parallel to the poem). The window offers a view into his house -- his
> memory -- and through the window his house projects the objects of his
life
> to the world outside (as the poet offers up his memories through verse).
> Inside and outside of the house are joined by the transparent mirror
window,
> the surface of mortality and his memory reflecting an illusory continuance
> of life beyond death, a false symbol as later with the fountain /
mountain.
>
> Isn't PF in some ways about the ultimate failure of symbols, and the
greater
> promise of patterns for pointing beyond nature and the self? If the
> transparent mirror window is intended for use as a symbol that the poet
can
> use in order to transcend space, time, mortality, etc, it's only half
> capable of the task, an illusion, a failure. The mirror is a vicious
circle
> where Shade can only ultimately see himself and never beyond it -- it's a
> cage linked to memory. So 1/2 infinity = the illusion of infinity from
the
> perspective of a being trapped in life.
>
> And so on,
> JasperF
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 24 Jul 2003 10:56:44 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Canto One - more notes
>
> On Thu, 2003-07-24 at 09:34, David Morris wrote:
> >
> > --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > ln 62: "Of the stiff vane so often visited": see Nabokov's "The Vane
> > Sisters". From Boyd: "the ghosts of two dead women waylay the
narrator's
> > attention through tricks of light and shade, and without his realizing,
guide
> > his actions and words, even as he expresses explicitly the hopelessness
of his
> > attempt to discern some glimpse of the sisters beyond death." (Boyd,
_The
> > Magic of Artistic Discovery_, 138)
> >
> > Has anyone here read "The Vane Sisters?" This theme of ghosts guiding
the
> > thoughts of an unaware living narrator/writer is the heart of the Boyd
II
> > interpretation of PF. I haven't read all of his "Shade and Shape in
Pale Fire"
> > (but I will). What I have read of it seems hopelessly muddled by its
seeing
> > both Shade's poem (maybe even his death) as being guided from the
beyond, and
> > then seeing him as doing the same thing to Kinbote as he writes the
Commentary.
> > I'll read the whole thing before I say any more about it.
>
>
> I can only hope that nobody rejects the new theory on the spot merely on
> the grounds that spiritualism is a lot of hooey. Nabokov is on record as
> holding that great novels are great fairy tales. (something to that
> effect)
>
> p.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 24 Jul 2003 11:15:24 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF CANTO ONE: Maud PT 1 of 2
>
> On Wed, 2003-07-23 at 21:07, charles albert wrote:
> > This has enjoyed a pretty good going over; the debate will come up again
later,
>
> but as to its appearance at this particular point, I wonder if any of
following
>
> might illuminate.
>
>
>
> I think I'd have to say that at least as likely as any other incest
> going on in the Shade family is what takes place between John and Sibyl.
> Naturally it's not true incest, merely incest-like. The clumsy son
> figure, inept and needful apart from literary composition, who hides his
> destructive drinking (bad for his heart) from an overly protective
> mother figure.
>
> It's a thought.
>
> P.
>
> >
> > "The intimate relationship between William Wordsworth, Samuel Taylor
Coleridge, and Dorothy Wordsworth comes through in their canonical works.
Dorothy's accounts are a valuable source of material on William, offering
insights into the themes and inspirations of his early poetry. Themes of
romance, incest, guilt, and familial breakdown and reunion can all be
studied in their works. Dorothy Wordsworth deserves long-overdue credit for
her influence on her brother's poetry, and also on the works of Coleridge."
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.yudev.com/mfo/britlit/wordsworth_dorothy.htm
> >
> > Romantic period it was more acceptable to partake in incest than
Although one might find it shocking in this day and age, during the
homosexual acts between males. Many writers, such as Byron, had documented
intimate relationships with their siblings, while others, such as
Wordsworth, are the subject of much specualtion. In some instances these
incestuous relationships are portrayed as being of pure love, just as any
normal relationship. However there are also instances where the incest
being represented is a rape occurring between a father and his daughter.
It wasn't until 1908 that English society saw a change in the laws
surrounding incest. Incest occuring between fathers and daughters became
illegal at that time.
> >
> >
> >
> >
http://www.cohums.ohio-state.edu/English/People/Tannenbaum.1/studentwebs/01wi08047/Shabba2/Incest.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:33:23 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Michael Joseph <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Nabokov & Time
>
> Very interesting, David. Thanks for keying in all of this. In Nabokov's
> statement that our ideas of Time are "tainted by the idea of space, he is
> quite clearly drawing upon Bergson's ideas in TIME AND FREE WILL, which
> were also seminal in Eliade's dialectic of sacred time and history.
> Perhaps you or others who know Nabokov studies better than I will be kind
> enough to say whether this debt is generally noted. It does position
> Nabokov at any rate to conceptualize time that could admit of
> transcendence, a noted theme of Shade's.
>
> VN's note about delighting "sensually" in the texture of time is
> remniscent of Shade's revelation:
>
> all at once it dawned on me that this
> Was the real point, the contrapuntal theme;
> Just this: not text, but texture. . . .
>
> A comparison: Nabokov's valorization of the "folds" of time corresponds
> closely to Shade's valorization of the music of time, sharing a perception
> of inhering design. Both formulations assert a value to time vis-a-vis the
> human characteristic of apprehending artistic coherence - one might even
> say time is valorized because it serves as the medium through which
> structure appears -- a very pagan idea.
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, David Morris wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > We can imagine all kinds of time, such as for example
> > "applied time"-- time applied to events, which we measure by
> > means of clocks and calendars; but those types of time are
> > inevitably tainted by our notion of space, spatial succession,
> > stretches and sections of space. When we speak of the "passage
> > of time," we visualize an abstract river flowing through a
> > generalized landscape. Applied time, measurable illusions of
> > time, are useful for the purposes of historians or physicists,
> > they do not interest me, and they did not interest my creature
> > Van Veen in Part Four of my Ada.
> > He and I in that book attempt to examine the essence of
> > Time, not its lapse. Van mentions the possibility of being
> > "an amateur of Time, an epicure of duration," of being able to
> > delight sensually in the texture of time, "in its stuff and
> > spread, in the fall of its folds, in the very impalpability of
> > its grayish gauze, in the coolness of its continuum." He also
> > is aware that "Time is a fluid medium for the culture of
> > metaphors."
> > Time, though akin to rhythm, is not simply rhythm, which
> > would imply motion-- and Time does not move. Van's greatest
> > discovery is his perception of Time as the dim hollow between
> > two rhythmic beats, the narrow and bottomless silence
> > between the beats, not the beats themselves, which only
> > embar Time. In this sense human life is not a pulsating heart
> > but the missed heartbeat.
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:12:12 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Canto One - more notes
>
> - --- Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net> wrote:
> > On Thu, 2003-07-24 at 09:34, David Morris wrote:
> >I haven't read all of Boyd's "Shade and Shape in Pale Fire" (but I will).
> What I have read of it seems hopelessly muddled by its seeing both Shade's
poem
> (maybe even his death) as being guided from the beyond, and then seeing
him as
> doing the same thing to Kinbote as he writes the Commentary.
> >I'll read the whole thing before I say any more about it.
> >
> >
> > I can only hope that nobody rejects the new theory on the spot merely on
the
> grounds that spiritualism is a lot of hooey. Nabokov is on record as
holding
> that great novels are great fairy tales. (something to that effect)
>
> I agree, but (still not having finished the above) it seems that the
> "resonances" between what is supposedly written by two different people
means
> either:
>
> 1. One person wrote the whole thing (Shadean, Kinbotean, or Schitzo
theory).
> 2. Kinbote's commentary echoes his being influenced by the poem (surtface
> story).
> 3. Shade is pulling strings from the beyond.
> 4. It was left intentionally indeterminate.
>
> DM
>
> __________________________________
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:15:43 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Michael Joseph <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu>
> Subject: RE: CANTO ONE: "slain/By"
>
> Jasper, this is wonderful. May I echo you and suggest that 1881 might
> represent one's perception of the infinite perceived in the mirror/glass
> 18 = 81, which may suggest the illusion of infinity (since the 1 projects
> the 8) or might suggest through the illusion an actual perception of
> pattern, where the palindrome symbolizes an overarching symmetry.
>
> One could also speculate that in experience, the self proceeds a sense of
> something beyond oneself -18-, but upon mature reflection, realizes that
> which is greater than oneself is actually antecedent -81-, a realization
> that would constitute a eureka moment that for Nabokov occurs as the
> experience of art as pattern -1881. (And also, might suggest a divine
> precedence, if we think of this as a reading moment that we can articulate
> as a succession (in reverse) Kinbote, Shade, Nabokov, Something beyond
> Nabokov, "potustoronnost'."
>
> One could also speculate, following Boyd's ghost-story hypothesis, that 18
> relates to a transcendent self, that is the self situated outside of
> spacetime interacting with another self, i.e. Shade and Kinbote whereby
> Kinbote influences Shade influencing Kinbote .... The pattern formulated
> by 1881 is endless (1881881881881...) although elegantly limned as 1881,
> and thus the transcendent correspondence occurs within the historical
> moment as it does within the historical cipher, 1881.
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 24 Jul 2003, Jasper Fidget wrote:
>
> > >
> > > "slain / By the false azure in the windowpane,"
> > > "slain / By the feigned remoteness of the windowpane,"
> > >
> >
> >
> > I think VN had a lot of fun with the numbers of the poem, since he could
> > count on them being the same in any edition (unlike page numbers). Many
> > numbers in the Commentary are linked to line numbers in more ways than
as
> > cross-references.
> >
> > From hacking with the numbers in Note to Line 130 (with which I'll be
> > flooding the list when we get there), I find something possibly
interesting
> > on ln 131 (the reprise "I was the shadow of the waxwing slain"). In K's
> > Commentary, the numbers 1888 and 1881 become visually important: 1888 as
an
> > infinite serious beyond a fixed point (wall infinity infinity infinity),
> > i.e. the future; and 1881 as infinity between two fixed barriers (wall
> > infinity infinity wall), i.e. life. But then the number 3 also takes on
> > some more significance as 1/2 infinity -- 3 as visually half of 8. So
the
> > number 131, as in line 131, becomes 1/2 infinity between two fixed
points
> > (wall 1/2infinity wall).
> >
> > What the hell does that mean?
> >
> > Maybe it's worth remembering that the window is attached to a house.
There
> > is a good deal of personal involvement with this house for Shade: he has
> > lived his entire life there, grew up in it, brought his new wife to it,
his
> > newborn baby, wrote poetry upstairs, and while sitting there learned
that
> > his daughter was gone. It is in a way a container for his life -- the
> > external equivalent of himself -- and a record of that life (in slight
> > parallel to the poem). The window offers a view into his house -- his
> > memory -- and through the window his house projects the objects of his
life
> > to the world outside (as the poet offers up his memories through verse).
> > Inside and outside of the house are joined by the transparent mirror
window,
> > the surface of mortality and his memory reflecting an illusory
continuance
> > of life beyond death, a false symbol as later with the fountain /
mountain.
> >
> > Isn't PF in some ways about the ultimate failure of symbols, and the
greater
> > promise of patterns for pointing beyond nature and the self? If the
> > transparent mirror window is intended for use as a symbol that the poet
can
> > use in order to transcend space, time, mortality, etc, it's only half
> > capable of the task, an illusion, a failure. The mirror is a vicious
circle
> > where Shade can only ultimately see himself and never beyond it -- it's
a
> > cage linked to memory. So 1/2 infinity = the illusion of infinity from
the
> > perspective of a being trapped in life.
> >
> > And so on,
> > JasperF
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:20:38 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Nabokov & Time
>
> - --- Michael Joseph <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Very interesting, David. Thanks for keying in all of this. In Nabokov's
> statement that our ideas of Time are "tainted by the idea of space, he is
quite
> clearly drawing upon Bergson's ideas in TIME AND FREE WILL, which were
also
> seminal in Eliade's dialectic of sacred time and history.
>
> You're welcome. But since I'm unfamiliar with Bregson's work, and I don't
have
> a good handle on what VN means to convey in the quotes I've passed on,
maybe
> you can elaborate some more about TIME AND FREE WILL (please?). The
adequacy
> of Will (not the Bard) as a means of producing art (and also thus
understanding
> "reality") seems one of the basic messages of the poem (hilariously
explored in
> Canto Four). What Shade longs for is "inspiration," which might be
synonomous
> with messages from the beyond...
>
> David Morris
>
> __________________________________
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:38:10 -0500
> From: "Tim Strzechowski" <dedalus204@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: CANTO ONE: "slain/By"
>
> This is a pretty cool exercise, guys. I, for one, have a problem with
1881
> suggesting "life" only because the time between the two "walls" of birth
and
> death are hardly infinity (much less infinity doubled/squared!). But 131
> has more of a suggestion of "life" to me because that there 3 is
> significantly less than 8 (i.e. infinity). Further, the visual aspect of
a
> 3 has an unfinished quality to it compared to the infinite cyclicality of
an
> 8.
>
> Who said studying literature doesn't involve numbers?
>
> Tim
>
>
>
> > Jasper, this is wonderful. [snip great MJ stuff] >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> [and snip great Jasper stuff]
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:51:00 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Nabokov & Time
>
> - --- David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > The adequacy of Will (not the Bard) as a means of producing art
>
> Of course I meant "INadequacy."
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:51:43 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: CANTO ONE: Is That A Real Poncho Or A Sears Poncho?
>
> slain/By the fal seazure in the windowpane
>
> false seizure
>
> I'd duplicate/Myself
>
> http://enotalone.com/books/ASIN/0060195649.html
>
> THE STRANGER IN THE MIRROR: Dissociation: The Hidden Epidemic
> By Marlene M.D. Steinberg, Maxine Schnall
>
> Dr. Steinberg's book has significant flaws but is still an invaluable
> resource for therapists and their clients who wish to understand and
recover
> from trauma-based dissociation. She defines dissociation as "a state of
> fragmented consciousness involving amnesia, a sense of unreality, and
> feelings of being disconnected from oneself and one's environment." Aimed
at
> the general reader, Steinberg's and co-author Schnall's prose is lucid,
> compassionate and contains much practical insight. She provides many
> self-help suggestions for communicating with and nurturing the dissociated
> parts of oneself. The book also includes a screening instrument to help
> identify the presence and potential need for further assessment of what
> Steinberg considers the five core dissociative symptoms: amnesia,
> depersonalization, derealization, identity confusion, and identity
> alteration. She stresses that dissociation may be mild, moderate or
severe;
> normal or abnormal; adaptive (healthy, promoting adjustment) or
maladaptive
> (unhealthy and interfering with adjustment, growth and stability) and that
> having one or more dissociative experiences does not automatically mean
one
> has a dissociative disorder. One chapter even bears the title "A Healthy
> Defense Gone Wrong." Transient dissociation may occur in response to
> heightened stress. Dissociative disorders, such as dissociative identity
> disorder (formerly known as multiple personality) develop in response to
> overwhelming (or traumatic) stress, such as childhood sexual abuse.
>
> The windowpane is in a bedroom window.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:57:58 -0400
> From: "charles albert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: Re: CANTO ONE: "slain/By"
>
> Cgnsider that one of the many names of Jack Grey is Degree, and also
gradus
> (grad is swedish for degree).
>
> Now think back to the Zembla excerpt from Pope.....
>
> love,
> cfa
>
>
>
> > This is a pretty cool exercise, guys. I, for one, have a problem with
> 1881
> > suggesting "life" only because the time between the two "walls" of birth
> and
> > death are hardly infinity (much less infinity doubled/squared!). But
131
> > has more of a suggestion of "life" to me because that there 3 is
> > significantly less than 8 (i.e. infinity). Further, the visual aspect
of
> a
> > 3 has an unfinished quality to it compared to the infinite cyclicality
of
> an
> > 8.
> >
> > Who said studying literature doesn't involve numbers?
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
> >
> > > Jasper, this is wonderful. [snip great MJ stuff] >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > [and snip great Jasper stuff]
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
>> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:20:48 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: NPPF: Playlist Addition
>
> A Whiter Shade Of Pale (Keith Reid)
>
> We skipped the light fandango
> Turned cartwheels 'cross the floor
> I was feeling kind of seasick
> The crowd called out for more
>
> The room was humming harder
> As the ceiling flew away
> When we called out for another drink
> The waiter brought a tray
>
> And so it was that later
> As the miller told his tale
> That her face at first just ghostly
> Turned A Whiter Shade Of Pale
>
> She said: "There is no reason
> And the truth is plain to see."
> But I wandered through my playing cards
> And would not let her be
>
> One of sixteen vestal virgins
> Who were leaving for the coast
> And although my eyes were open
> They might just as well be closed
>
> And so it was that later
> As the miller told his tale
> That her face at first just ghostly
> Turned A Whiter Shade Of Pale
>
> And so it was that later
> As the miller told his tale
> That her face at first just ghostly
> Turned A Whiter Shade Of Pale
>
> And so it was that later
> As the miller told his tale
> That her face at first just ghostly
> Turned A Whiter Shade Of Pale
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:29:03 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: CANTO ONE: "slain/By"
>
> > From: Michael Joseph [mailto:mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu]
> >
> > Jasper, this is wonderful. May I echo you and suggest that 1881 might
> > represent one's perception of the infinite perceived in the mirror/glass
> > 18 = 81, which may suggest the illusion of infinity (since the 1
projects
> > the 8) or might suggest through the illusion an actual perception of
> > pattern, where the palindrome symbolizes an overarching symmetry.
> >
> > One could also speculate that in experience, the self proceeds a sense
of
> > something beyond oneself -18-, but upon mature reflection, realizes that
> > which is greater than oneself is actually antecedent -81-, a realization
> > that would constitute a eureka moment that for Nabokov occurs as the
> > experience of art as pattern -1881. (And also, might suggest a divine
> > precedence, if we think of this as a reading moment that we can
articulate
> > as a succession (in reverse) Kinbote, Shade, Nabokov, Something beyond
> > Nabokov, "potustoronnost'."
> >
> > One could also speculate, following Boyd's ghost-story hypothesis, that
18
> > relates to a transcendent self, that is the self situated outside of
> > spacetime interacting with another self, i.e. Shade and Kinbote whereby
> > Kinbote influences Shade influencing Kinbote .... The pattern formulated
> > by 1881 is endless (1881881881881...) although elegantly limned as 1881,
> > and thus the transcendent correspondence occurs within the historical
> > moment as it does within the historical cipher, 1881.
> >
> >
> > Michael
> >
>
> Excellent! I'm going to hold off on most of this for when it comes up,
but
> note also that Tsar Alexander II was born 1818, and died 1881.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:29:49 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: CANTO ONE: "slain/By"
>
> > From: Tim Strzechowski [mailto:dedalus204@comcast.net]
> >
> > This is a pretty cool exercise, guys. I, for one, have a problem with
> > 1881
> > suggesting "life" only because the time between the two "walls" of birth
> > and
> > death are hardly infinity (much less infinity doubled/squared!). But
131
> > has more of a suggestion of "life" to me because that there 3 is
> > significantly less than 8 (i.e. infinity). Further, the visual aspect
of
> > a
> > 3 has an unfinished quality to it compared to the infinite cyclicality
of
> > an
> > 8.
> >
> > Who said studying literature doesn't involve numbers?
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
>
> Yes, certainly agree, but I was thinking more in terms of Shade's quest to
> peer beyond life, of attaining 1881 (or 181) in life -- transcendence into
> (or just knowledge of) infinity from within life. See line 180-181:
> "Devoting all my twisted life to this / One task. Today I'm sixty-one.
> Waxwings".
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:04:01 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: CANTO ONE: doctor Colt
>
> Why no capital 'D' for 'doctor Colt?'
>
> Why 'Colt?'
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:19:09 -0400
> From: "charles albert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: Re: CANTO ONE: doctor Colt
>
> Oxymoron...
>
>
> Colt....young male horse........
>
> also possibly synechdotal
>
>
> Hippocrates - hippo - greek root for horse....
>
>
>
> love,
> cfa
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> To: <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 2:04 PM
> Subject: Re: CANTO ONE: doctor Colt
>
>
> > Why no capital 'D' for 'doctor Colt?'
> >
> > Why 'Colt?'
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:29:29 -0400 (EDT)
> From: <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 1: 1-4 some random notes
>
> Ah, interesting connections between the two poems and the two Johns. And
> of course there is also an additional linkage in the correspondence of
> the two Charles's, which all goes to suggest the ontological stakes for
> which VN is playing. Also sort of interesting, many Miltonists have
> stumbled on the subject of why Milton would have made Satan so
> attractive to readers. One of the more persistent arguments goes that
> Milton hadn't intended anything of the sort, but he was carried away by
> the power of poetry.
>
> Not the devil made me do it, but ...
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
> > Excellent points, Michael. And I couldn't help noticing some distinct
> > echoes of John Milton throughout Canto 1 of _Pale Fire_, especially the
> > sections of _Paradise Lost_ in which the Miltonic bard invokes the
> Muse, or
> > laments his loss of Sight in light of the need for poetic vision (cf.
Book
> > III, lines 1-32, for example). Of course secular Shade, who comes
> across as
> > somewhat arrogant in Canto 1 when describing the extent of his poetic
> vision
> > and ability, contrasts with the bard of _PL_ who, despite his desire to
> > create "things unattempted yet in prose or rhyme," assumes much more
> > humility as he struggles with the need for poetic inspiration.
> >
> > I don't have my copy of PF handy, but something tells me the back cover
> > (maybe?) describes the Shade poem as an "epic poem." This, of course,
is
> > hardly the case in the classical sense, but Milton (and the epic
> tradition)
> > was no doubt in the back of Nabokov's mind as he fashioned this longer
> poem,
> > written in a series of cantos (or books), and composed in a traditional
> > metric form, and dealing (in a way) with lofty themes.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael Joseph" <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu>
> > Cc: <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 11:49 AM
> > Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 1: 1-4 some random notes
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I was the shadow of the waxwing slain
> > > By the false azure in the windowpane;
> > > I was the smudge of ashen fluff--and I
> > > Lived on, flew on, in the reflected sky.
> > > And from the inside, too, I'd duplicate
> > > Myself. . . .
> > >
> > > "Slain" also echoes Biblical language, which is exactly right for
Shade
> > > who contemplates transcendence, or a "feigned" (i.e., supposed;
> imaginary)
> > > transcendence, a fairly conventional reading of "azure." The slaying
> could
> > > conceivably have a secondary meaning in that Shade's implicit wish to
> > > survive in his poetry is ironically granted in Kinbote's slaying of
its
> > > meaning and beauty. Kinbote of course peers in at Shade's
> windowpane, and
> > > just as "azure" signifies (See Milton) the vault of Heaven, it also
> > > signifies the blue color in coats of arms thus the "false azure" could
> > > well represent the clownish Kinbote's delusion of being the
self-exiled
> > > King Charles: a false King.
> > >
> > > If someone has discussed the form of the opening, I apologize for
> possible
> > > duplication, but I awnt to point out that it seems very like a form of
> > > Welsh poetry, such as we see for example in the Song of Amergin:
> > >
> > > "I am the womb of every holt,
> > > "I have been in many shapes....
> > > I am the blaze on every hill,
> > > I have been a drop in the air.
> > > I am the queen of every hive,
> > > I have been a shining star.
> > > I am the shield to every head,
> > > I have been a word in a book. ...
> > > I am the tomb to every hope."
> > > I have traveled, I have made a circuit,
> > > -- THE SONG OF AMERGIN.
> > >
> > > ... and The Hanes taliesin
> > >
> > > THE BATTLE OF THE TREES.
> > >
> > > "I have obtained the muse from the Cauldron of Cerridwen;
> > > I have been bard of the harp to Lleon of Lochlin;
> > > I have been on the White Hill, in the court of Cynvelyn...."
> > > -- THE HANES TALIESIN.
> > >
> > > ... which Nabokov could conceivably have seen in several places,
> > > including Graves's The White Goddess (1948).
> > >
> > > These poems are generally considered to be involved with religious
> beliefs
> > > and are incantatory - a telling choice for someone like Shade who, as
> > > Brian Boyd points out, has "dedicated his whole life to fighting the
> > > "inadmissible abyss" of death
> > > (http://www.libraries.psu.edu/iasweb/nabokov/boydpf1.htm), and for
> someone
> > > like Nabokov, of course, who famously said "I do not believe in
> time." The
> > > form is also possibly interesting for another, unrelated, reason: the
> > > voice of the poem is multiple; that is, the "I" does not refer to one
> > > single persona, but to multiple personae, or a transpersonal corporate
> > > identity.
> > >
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3440
> ********************************
.
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 11:33 AM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3440
>
> pynchon-l-digest Thursday, July 24 2003 Volume 02 : Number
3440
>
>
>
> Re: NPPF - Canto One - more notes
> Re: NPPF Canto 1: 1-4
> Re: NPPF - Canto One - more notes
> RE: CANTO ONE: "slain/By"
> Re: NPPF - Canto One - more notes
> Re: NPPF CANTO ONE: Maud PT 1 of 2
> Re: NPPF - Nabokov & Time
> Re: NPPF - Canto One - more notes
> RE: CANTO ONE: "slain/By"
> Re: NPPF - Nabokov & Time
> Re: CANTO ONE: "slain/By"
> Re: NPPF - Nabokov & Time
> CANTO ONE: Is That A Real Poncho Or A Sears Poncho?
> Re: CANTO ONE: "slain/By"
> re: Zoyd's Work
> NPPF: Playlist Addition
> RE: CANTO ONE: "slain/By"
> RE: CANTO ONE: "slain/By"
> Re: CANTO ONE: doctor Colt
> Re: CANTO ONE: doctor Colt
> re: Zoyd's Work
> Re: NPPF Canto 1: 1-4 some random notes
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 06:34:22 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Canto One - more notes
>
> - --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> >
> > ln 62: "Of the stiff vane so often visited": see Nabokov's "The Vane
> Sisters". From Boyd: "the ghosts of two dead women waylay the narrator's
> attention through tricks of light and shade, and without his realizing,
guide
> his actions and words, even as he expresses explicitly the hopelessness of
his
> attempt to discern some glimpse of the sisters beyond death." (Boyd, _The
> Magic of Artistic Discovery_, 138)
>
> Has anyone here read "The Vane Sisters?" This theme of ghosts guiding the
> thoughts of an unaware living narrator/writer is the heart of the Boyd II
> interpretation of PF. I haven't read all of his "Shade and Shape in Pale
Fire"
> (but I will). What I have read of it seems hopelessly muddled by its
seeing
> both Shade's poem (maybe even his death) as being guided from the beyond,
and
> then seeing him as doing the same thing to Kinbote as he writes the
Commentary.
> I'll read the whole thing before I say any more about it.
>
> David Morris
>
> __________________________________
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 06:54:40 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Malignd <malignd@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 1: 1-4
>
> Rob Jackson:
>
> <<It doesn't work because the series of consonant
> blends creates a dissonant effect which, as a
> soundscape, doesn't correlate in any way to the scene
> or attempted mood. And that "smudge" goes with "wax"
> (rather than the actual remnant of bird) isn't poetic;
> it's corny.>>
>
> Two things:
>
> The smudge doesn't go with wax or with remnant of
> bird. Shade compares himself to the shadow of the
> waxwing; "smudge of ashen fluff" is then, in context,
> an expansion of "shadow."
>
> You write, re VL:
>
> <<... this sort of thing is criticised by Fredric
> Jameson (he calls it "parody that has lost its sense
> of humour", which is, after all, a rather subjective
> judgement -- I find Pynchon's send-ups, if nothing
> else, quite hilarious).>>
>
> You should bear this in mind when discussing VN's
> (Shade's) poem. Your comment that "the series of
> consonant blends creates a dissonant effect which, as
> a soundscape, doesn't correlate in any way to the
> scene or attempted mood," is "a rather subjective
> judgement," although you apparently don't see it as
> such. Noting the series of consonants is objective;
> saying it doesn't correlate is not. Calling it corny,
> certainly isn't.
>
> In large, I think your argument that VN intended
> Shade's poem as less than grand is tenable, even
> probable, certainly interesting, and quite
> unavoidable. But I think the poem is often far better
> than you allow and your addressing the argument as a
> closed case, insisting the poem is simply second rate
> and that such can be demonstrated as if with test tube
> and caliper ... It's just hectoring.
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:02:39 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Canto One - more notes
>
> - --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> > ln 108: "Twinned Iris":
> >
> > (OED) "A rainbow, esp. (freq. Iris) personified; a many-coloured
refraction
> of light from drops of water; a rainbow-like or iridescent appearance; a
> coloured halo; a combination of brilliant colours."
> >
> > (OED) "Photography & Cinematography. In full iris diaphragm. An
adjustable
> diaphragm of thin overlapping plates for regulating the size of a control
hole,
> esp. for admitting light to a lens or lens system." (i.e. another
spiral....)
> >
> > Iris, goddess of the rainbow and messenger of Olympus; see Note to 130
for
> Iris Acht and a slew of twinning.
>
> http://www.sfheart.com/iris.html
> "Among the duties of the Greek Goddess Iris was that of leading the souls
of
> dead women to the Elysian Fields. In token of that faith the Greeks
planted
> purple Iris on the graves of women. Iris was the messenger of the gods and
the
> personification of the Rainbow. The Greek symbolism for the iris comes
down to
> us by word of mouth in the form of a myth that was old in Homer's day.
>
> [...]
>
> Leaping forward through time we know that the Fleur-de-lis as a
conventional
> form long predated its association with the Kings of France. There are
various
> legends of how the iris came to represent the French monarchy but most
center
> around two historical incidents separated in time by six hundred years.
Clovis
> who in 496 A.D. is said to have abandoned the three toads on his banner in
> favor of the fleur-de-lis. His Christian Queen Clotilda, had long sought
to
> convert her heathen husband but he always ignored her plea. Then faced
with a
> formidable army of Alamanni, the Germanic tribe invading his kingdom, he
told
> his wife that if he won the coming battle he would admit her God was
strongest
> and be baptized. He did win and the toads whose symbolism would be most
> interesting to know disappeared.
>
> The second incident occurred in 1147. Louis VII of France had a dream
that
> convinced him to adopt the purple iris as his device shortly before
setting out
> for his ill-fated crusade. Thus the fleur-de-lis became the symbol on the
> banner of France for the next six hundred years. Or twelve hundred years
if we
> take it from the time of Clovis that the iris became the symbol for a
great
> nation.
>
> The iris was so powerful a symbol of the French kings that the
> Revolutionaries in 1789 set out to totally obliterate it the symbol of the
> hated monarchy. It was chipped off buildings and torn from draperies. Men
were
> guillotined for wearing a fleur-de-lis on their clothes or as jewelry. The
> revolution succeeded and the symbol of the fleur-de-lis is only a memory
now
> and is considered merely a conventionalized ornament or decoration.
>
>
http://www.art.com/asp/sp-asp/_/PD--10072169/Iris___Keeper_of_the_Rainbow.htm?RFID=633434
>
> Also:
>
> http://www.stlukeseye.com/anatomy/Iris.asp
>
> "The colored part of the eye is called the iris. It controls light levels
> inside the eye similar to the aperture on a camera. The round opening in
the
> center of the iris is called the pupil. The iris is embedded with tiny
muscles
> that dilate (widen) and constrict (narrow) the pupil size.
>
> The sphincter muscle lies around the very edge of the pupil. In bright
light,
> the sphincter contracts, causing the pupil to constrict. The dilator
muscle
> runs radially through the iris, like spokes on a wheel. This muscle
dilates
> the eye in dim lighting.
>
> The iris is flat and divides the front of the eye (anterior chamber) from
the
> back of the eye (posterior chamber). Its color comes from microscopic
pigment
> cells called melanin. The color, texture, and patterns of each person's
iris
> are as unique as a fingerprint."
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:55:49 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: CANTO ONE: "slain/By"
>
> >
> > "slain / By the false azure in the windowpane,"
> > "slain / By the feigned remoteness of the windowpane,"
> >
>
>
> I think VN had a lot of fun with the numbers of the poem, since he could
> count on them being the same in any edition (unlike page numbers). Many
> numbers in the Commentary are linked to line numbers in more ways than as
> cross-references.
>
> From hacking with the numbers in Note to Line 130 (with which I'll be
> flooding the list when we get there), I find something possibly
interesting
> on ln 131 (the reprise "I was the shadow of the waxwing slain"). In K's
> Commentary, the numbers 1888 and 1881 become visually important: 1888 as
an
> infinite serious beyond a fixed point (wall infinity infinity infinity),
> i.e. the future; and 1881 as infinity between two fixed barriers (wall
> infinity infinity wall), i.e. life. But then the number 3 also takes on
> some more significance as 1/2 infinity -- 3 as visually half of 8. So the
> number 131, as in line 131, becomes 1/2 infinity between two fixed points
> (wall 1/2infinity wall).
>
> What the hell does that mean?
>
> Maybe it's worth remembering that the window is attached to a house.
There
> is a good deal of personal involvement with this house for Shade: he has
> lived his entire life there, grew up in it, brought his new wife to it,
his
> newborn baby, wrote poetry upstairs, and while sitting there learned that
> his daughter was gone. It is in a way a container for his life -- the
> external equivalent of himself -- and a record of that life (in slight
> parallel to the poem). The window offers a view into his house -- his
> memory -- and through the window his house projects the objects of his
life
> to the world outside (as the poet offers up his memories through verse).
> Inside and outside of the house are joined by the transparent mirror
window,
> the surface of mortality and his memory reflecting an illusory continuance
> of life beyond death, a false symbol as later with the fountain /
mountain.
>
> Isn't PF in some ways about the ultimate failure of symbols, and the
greater
> promise of patterns for pointing beyond nature and the self? If the
> transparent mirror window is intended for use as a symbol that the poet
can
> use in order to transcend space, time, mortality, etc, it's only half
> capable of the task, an illusion, a failure. The mirror is a vicious
circle
> where Shade can only ultimately see himself and never beyond it -- it's a
> cage linked to memory. So 1/2 infinity = the illusion of infinity from
the
> perspective of a being trapped in life.
>
> And so on,
> JasperF
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 24 Jul 2003 10:56:44 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Canto One - more notes
>
> On Thu, 2003-07-24 at 09:34, David Morris wrote:
> >
> > --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > ln 62: "Of the stiff vane so often visited": see Nabokov's "The Vane
> > Sisters". From Boyd: "the ghosts of two dead women waylay the
narrator's
> > attention through tricks of light and shade, and without his realizing,
guide
> > his actions and words, even as he expresses explicitly the hopelessness
of his
> > attempt to discern some glimpse of the sisters beyond death." (Boyd,
_The
> > Magic of Artistic Discovery_, 138)
> >
> > Has anyone here read "The Vane Sisters?" This theme of ghosts guiding
the
> > thoughts of an unaware living narrator/writer is the heart of the Boyd
II
> > interpretation of PF. I haven't read all of his "Shade and Shape in
Pale Fire"
> > (but I will). What I have read of it seems hopelessly muddled by its
seeing
> > both Shade's poem (maybe even his death) as being guided from the
beyond, and
> > then seeing him as doing the same thing to Kinbote as he writes the
Commentary.
> > I'll read the whole thing before I say any more about it.
>
>
> I can only hope that nobody rejects the new theory on the spot merely on
> the grounds that spiritualism is a lot of hooey. Nabokov is on record as
> holding that great novels are great fairy tales. (something to that
> effect)
>
> p.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 24 Jul 2003 11:15:24 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF CANTO ONE: Maud PT 1 of 2
>
> On Wed, 2003-07-23 at 21:07, charles albert wrote:
> > This has enjoyed a pretty good going over; the debate will come up again
later,
>
> but as to its appearance at this particular point, I wonder if any of
following
>
> might illuminate.
>
>
>
> I think I'd have to say that at least as likely as any other incest
> going on in the Shade family is what takes place between John and Sibyl.
> Naturally it's not true incest, merely incest-like. The clumsy son
> figure, inept and needful apart from literary composition, who hides his
> destructive drinking (bad for his heart) from an overly protective
> mother figure.
>
> It's a thought.
>
> P.
>
> >
> > "The intimate relationship between William Wordsworth, Samuel Taylor
Coleridge, and Dorothy Wordsworth comes through in their canonical works.
Dorothy's accounts are a valuable source of material on William, offering
insights into the themes and inspirations of his early poetry. Themes of
romance, incest, guilt, and familial breakdown and reunion can all be
studied in their works. Dorothy Wordsworth deserves long-overdue credit for
her influence on her brother's poetry, and also on the works of Coleridge."
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.yudev.com/mfo/britlit/wordsworth_dorothy.htm
> >
> > Romantic period it was more acceptable to partake in incest than
Although one might find it shocking in this day and age, during the
homosexual acts between males. Many writers, such as Byron, had documented
intimate relationships with their siblings, while others, such as
Wordsworth, are the subject of much specualtion. In some instances these
incestuous relationships are portrayed as being of pure love, just as any
normal relationship. However there are also instances where the incest
being represented is a rape occurring between a father and his daughter.
It wasn't until 1908 that English society saw a change in the laws
surrounding incest. Incest occuring between fathers and daughters became
illegal at that time.
> >
> >
> >
> >
http://www.cohums.ohio-state.edu/English/People/Tannenbaum.1/studentwebs/01wi08047/Shabba2/Incest.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:33:23 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Michael Joseph <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Nabokov & Time
>
> Very interesting, David. Thanks for keying in all of this. In Nabokov's
> statement that our ideas of Time are "tainted by the idea of space, he is
> quite clearly drawing upon Bergson's ideas in TIME AND FREE WILL, which
> were also seminal in Eliade's dialectic of sacred time and history.
> Perhaps you or others who know Nabokov studies better than I will be kind
> enough to say whether this debt is generally noted. It does position
> Nabokov at any rate to conceptualize time that could admit of
> transcendence, a noted theme of Shade's.
>
> VN's note about delighting "sensually" in the texture of time is
> remniscent of Shade's revelation:
>
> all at once it dawned on me that this
> Was the real point, the contrapuntal theme;
> Just this: not text, but texture. . . .
>
> A comparison: Nabokov's valorization of the "folds" of time corresponds
> closely to Shade's valorization of the music of time, sharing a perception
> of inhering design. Both formulations assert a value to time vis-a-vis the
> human characteristic of apprehending artistic coherence - one might even
> say time is valorized because it serves as the medium through which
> structure appears -- a very pagan idea.
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, David Morris wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > We can imagine all kinds of time, such as for example
> > "applied time"-- time applied to events, which we measure by
> > means of clocks and calendars; but those types of time are
> > inevitably tainted by our notion of space, spatial succession,
> > stretches and sections of space. When we speak of the "passage
> > of time," we visualize an abstract river flowing through a
> > generalized landscape. Applied time, measurable illusions of
> > time, are useful for the purposes of historians or physicists,
> > they do not interest me, and they did not interest my creature
> > Van Veen in Part Four of my Ada.
> > He and I in that book attempt to examine the essence of
> > Time, not its lapse. Van mentions the possibility of being
> > "an amateur of Time, an epicure of duration," of being able to
> > delight sensually in the texture of time, "in its stuff and
> > spread, in the fall of its folds, in the very impalpability of
> > its grayish gauze, in the coolness of its continuum." He also
> > is aware that "Time is a fluid medium for the culture of
> > metaphors."
> > Time, though akin to rhythm, is not simply rhythm, which
> > would imply motion-- and Time does not move. Van's greatest
> > discovery is his perception of Time as the dim hollow between
> > two rhythmic beats, the narrow and bottomless silence
> > between the beats, not the beats themselves, which only
> > embar Time. In this sense human life is not a pulsating heart
> > but the missed heartbeat.
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:12:12 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Canto One - more notes
>
> - --- Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net> wrote:
> > On Thu, 2003-07-24 at 09:34, David Morris wrote:
> >I haven't read all of Boyd's "Shade and Shape in Pale Fire" (but I will).
> What I have read of it seems hopelessly muddled by its seeing both Shade's
poem
> (maybe even his death) as being guided from the beyond, and then seeing
him as
> doing the same thing to Kinbote as he writes the Commentary.
> >I'll read the whole thing before I say any more about it.
> >
> >
> > I can only hope that nobody rejects the new theory on the spot merely on
the
> grounds that spiritualism is a lot of hooey. Nabokov is on record as
holding
> that great novels are great fairy tales. (something to that effect)
>
> I agree, but (still not having finished the above) it seems that the
> "resonances" between what is supposedly written by two different people
means
> either:
>
> 1. One person wrote the whole thing (Shadean, Kinbotean, or Schitzo
theory).
> 2. Kinbote's commentary echoes his being influenced by the poem (surtface
> story).
> 3. Shade is pulling strings from the beyond.
> 4. It was left intentionally indeterminate.
>
> DM
>
> __________________________________
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:15:43 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Michael Joseph <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu>
> Subject: RE: CANTO ONE: "slain/By"
>
> Jasper, this is wonderful. May I echo you and suggest that 1881 might
> represent one's perception of the infinite perceived in the mirror/glass
> 18 = 81, which may suggest the illusion of infinity (since the 1 projects
> the 8) or might suggest through the illusion an actual perception of
> pattern, where the palindrome symbolizes an overarching symmetry.
>
> One could also speculate that in experience, the self proceeds a sense of
> something beyond oneself -18-, but upon mature reflection, realizes that
> which is greater than oneself is actually antecedent -81-, a realization
> that would constitute a eureka moment that for Nabokov occurs as the
> experience of art as pattern -1881. (And also, might suggest a divine
> precedence, if we think of this as a reading moment that we can articulate
> as a succession (in reverse) Kinbote, Shade, Nabokov, Something beyond
> Nabokov, "potustoronnost'."
>
> One could also speculate, following Boyd's ghost-story hypothesis, that 18
> relates to a transcendent self, that is the self situated outside of
> spacetime interacting with another self, i.e. Shade and Kinbote whereby
> Kinbote influences Shade influencing Kinbote .... The pattern formulated
> by 1881 is endless (1881881881881...) although elegantly limned as 1881,
> and thus the transcendent correspondence occurs within the historical
> moment as it does within the historical cipher, 1881.
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 24 Jul 2003, Jasper Fidget wrote:
>
> > >
> > > "slain / By the false azure in the windowpane,"
> > > "slain / By the feigned remoteness of the windowpane,"
> > >
> >
> >
> > I think VN had a lot of fun with the numbers of the poem, since he could
> > count on them being the same in any edition (unlike page numbers). Many
> > numbers in the Commentary are linked to line numbers in more ways than
as
> > cross-references.
> >
> > From hacking with the numbers in Note to Line 130 (with which I'll be
> > flooding the list when we get there), I find something possibly
interesting
> > on ln 131 (the reprise "I was the shadow of the waxwing slain"). In K's
> > Commentary, the numbers 1888 and 1881 become visually important: 1888 as
an
> > infinite serious beyond a fixed point (wall infinity infinity infinity),
> > i.e. the future; and 1881 as infinity between two fixed barriers (wall
> > infinity infinity wall), i.e. life. But then the number 3 also takes on
> > some more significance as 1/2 infinity -- 3 as visually half of 8. So
the
> > number 131, as in line 131, becomes 1/2 infinity between two fixed
points
> > (wall 1/2infinity wall).
> >
> > What the hell does that mean?
> >
> > Maybe it's worth remembering that the window is attached to a house.
There
> > is a good deal of personal involvement with this house for Shade: he has
> > lived his entire life there, grew up in it, brought his new wife to it,
his
> > newborn baby, wrote poetry upstairs, and while sitting there learned
that
> > his daughter was gone. It is in a way a container for his life -- the
> > external equivalent of himself -- and a record of that life (in slight
> > parallel to the poem). The window offers a view into his house -- his
> > memory -- and through the window his house projects the objects of his
life
> > to the world outside (as the poet offers up his memories through verse).
> > Inside and outside of the house are joined by the transparent mirror
window,
> > the surface of mortality and his memory reflecting an illusory
continuance
> > of life beyond death, a false symbol as later with the fountain /
mountain.
> >
> > Isn't PF in some ways about the ultimate failure of symbols, and the
greater
> > promise of patterns for pointing beyond nature and the self? If the
> > transparent mirror window is intended for use as a symbol that the poet
can
> > use in order to transcend space, time, mortality, etc, it's only half
> > capable of the task, an illusion, a failure. The mirror is a vicious
circle
> > where Shade can only ultimately see himself and never beyond it -- it's
a
> > cage linked to memory. So 1/2 infinity = the illusion of infinity from
the
> > perspective of a being trapped in life.
> >
> > And so on,
> > JasperF
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:20:38 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Nabokov & Time
>
> - --- Michael Joseph <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Very interesting, David. Thanks for keying in all of this. In Nabokov's
> statement that our ideas of Time are "tainted by the idea of space, he is
quite
> clearly drawing upon Bergson's ideas in TIME AND FREE WILL, which were
also
> seminal in Eliade's dialectic of sacred time and history.
>
> You're welcome. But since I'm unfamiliar with Bregson's work, and I don't
have
> a good handle on what VN means to convey in the quotes I've passed on,
maybe
> you can elaborate some more about TIME AND FREE WILL (please?). The
adequacy
> of Will (not the Bard) as a means of producing art (and also thus
understanding
> "reality") seems one of the basic messages of the poem (hilariously
explored in
> Canto Four). What Shade longs for is "inspiration," which might be
synonomous
> with messages from the beyond...
>
> David Morris
>
> __________________________________
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:38:10 -0500
> From: "Tim Strzechowski" <dedalus204@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: CANTO ONE: "slain/By"
>
> This is a pretty cool exercise, guys. I, for one, have a problem with
1881
> suggesting "life" only because the time between the two "walls" of birth
and
> death are hardly infinity (much less infinity doubled/squared!). But 131
> has more of a suggestion of "life" to me because that there 3 is
> significantly less than 8 (i.e. infinity). Further, the visual aspect of
a
> 3 has an unfinished quality to it compared to the infinite cyclicality of
an
> 8.
>
> Who said studying literature doesn't involve numbers?
>
> Tim
>
>
>
> > Jasper, this is wonderful. [snip great MJ stuff] >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> [and snip great Jasper stuff]
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:51:00 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Nabokov & Time
>
> - --- David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > The adequacy of Will (not the Bard) as a means of producing art
>
> Of course I meant "INadequacy."
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:51:43 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: CANTO ONE: Is That A Real Poncho Or A Sears Poncho?
>
> slain/By the fal seazure in the windowpane
>
> false seizure
>
> I'd duplicate/Myself
>
> http://enotalone.com/books/ASIN/0060195649.html
>
> THE STRANGER IN THE MIRROR: Dissociation: The Hidden Epidemic
> By Marlene M.D. Steinberg, Maxine Schnall
>
> Dr. Steinberg's book has significant flaws but is still an invaluable
> resource for therapists and their clients who wish to understand and
recover
> from trauma-based dissociation. She defines dissociation as "a state of
> fragmented consciousness involving amnesia, a sense of unreality, and
> feelings of being disconnected from oneself and one's environment." Aimed
at
> the general reader, Steinberg's and co-author Schnall's prose is lucid,
> compassionate and contains much practical insight. She provides many
> self-help suggestions for communicating with and nurturing the dissociated
> parts of oneself. The book also includes a screening instrument to help
> identify the presence and potential need for further assessment of what
> Steinberg considers the five core dissociative symptoms: amnesia,
> depersonalization, derealization, identity confusion, and identity
> alteration. She stresses that dissociation may be mild, moderate or
severe;
> normal or abnormal; adaptive (healthy, promoting adjustment) or
maladaptive
> (unhealthy and interfering with adjustment, growth and stability) and that
> having one or more dissociative experiences does not automatically mean
one
> has a dissociative disorder. One chapter even bears the title "A Healthy
> Defense Gone Wrong." Transient dissociation may occur in response to
> heightened stress. Dissociative disorders, such as dissociative identity
> disorder (formerly known as multiple personality) develop in response to
> overwhelming (or traumatic) stress, such as childhood sexual abuse.
>
> The windowpane is in a bedroom window.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:57:58 -0400
> From: "charles albert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: Re: CANTO ONE: "slain/By"
>
> Cgnsider that one of the many names of Jack Grey is Degree, and also
gradus
> (grad is swedish for degree).
>
> Now think back to the Zembla excerpt from Pope.....
>
> love,
> cfa
>
>
>
> > This is a pretty cool exercise, guys. I, for one, have a problem with
> 1881
> > suggesting "life" only because the time between the two "walls" of birth
> and
> > death are hardly infinity (much less infinity doubled/squared!). But
131
> > has more of a suggestion of "life" to me because that there 3 is
> > significantly less than 8 (i.e. infinity). Further, the visual aspect
of
> a
> > 3 has an unfinished quality to it compared to the infinite cyclicality
of
> an
> > 8.
> >
> > Who said studying literature doesn't involve numbers?
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
> >
> > > Jasper, this is wonderful. [snip great MJ stuff] >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > [and snip great Jasper stuff]
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
>> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:20:48 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: NPPF: Playlist Addition
>
> A Whiter Shade Of Pale (Keith Reid)
>
> We skipped the light fandango
> Turned cartwheels 'cross the floor
> I was feeling kind of seasick
> The crowd called out for more
>
> The room was humming harder
> As the ceiling flew away
> When we called out for another drink
> The waiter brought a tray
>
> And so it was that later
> As the miller told his tale
> That her face at first just ghostly
> Turned A Whiter Shade Of Pale
>
> She said: "There is no reason
> And the truth is plain to see."
> But I wandered through my playing cards
> And would not let her be
>
> One of sixteen vestal virgins
> Who were leaving for the coast
> And although my eyes were open
> They might just as well be closed
>
> And so it was that later
> As the miller told his tale
> That her face at first just ghostly
> Turned A Whiter Shade Of Pale
>
> And so it was that later
> As the miller told his tale
> That her face at first just ghostly
> Turned A Whiter Shade Of Pale
>
> And so it was that later
> As the miller told his tale
> That her face at first just ghostly
> Turned A Whiter Shade Of Pale
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:29:03 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: CANTO ONE: "slain/By"
>
> > From: Michael Joseph [mailto:mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu]
> >
> > Jasper, this is wonderful. May I echo you and suggest that 1881 might
> > represent one's perception of the infinite perceived in the mirror/glass
> > 18 = 81, which may suggest the illusion of infinity (since the 1
projects
> > the 8) or might suggest through the illusion an actual perception of
> > pattern, where the palindrome symbolizes an overarching symmetry.
> >
> > One could also speculate that in experience, the self proceeds a sense
of
> > something beyond oneself -18-, but upon mature reflection, realizes that
> > which is greater than oneself is actually antecedent -81-, a realization
> > that would constitute a eureka moment that for Nabokov occurs as the
> > experience of art as pattern -1881. (And also, might suggest a divine
> > precedence, if we think of this as a reading moment that we can
articulate
> > as a succession (in reverse) Kinbote, Shade, Nabokov, Something beyond
> > Nabokov, "potustoronnost'."
> >
> > One could also speculate, following Boyd's ghost-story hypothesis, that
18
> > relates to a transcendent self, that is the self situated outside of
> > spacetime interacting with another self, i.e. Shade and Kinbote whereby
> > Kinbote influences Shade influencing Kinbote .... The pattern formulated
> > by 1881 is endless (1881881881881...) although elegantly limned as 1881,
> > and thus the transcendent correspondence occurs within the historical
> > moment as it does within the historical cipher, 1881.
> >
> >
> > Michael
> >
>
> Excellent! I'm going to hold off on most of this for when it comes up,
but
> note also that Tsar Alexander II was born 1818, and died 1881.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:29:49 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: CANTO ONE: "slain/By"
>
> > From: Tim Strzechowski [mailto:dedalus204@comcast.net]
> >
> > This is a pretty cool exercise, guys. I, for one, have a problem with
> > 1881
> > suggesting "life" only because the time between the two "walls" of birth
> > and
> > death are hardly infinity (much less infinity doubled/squared!). But
131
> > has more of a suggestion of "life" to me because that there 3 is
> > significantly less than 8 (i.e. infinity). Further, the visual aspect
of
> > a
> > 3 has an unfinished quality to it compared to the infinite cyclicality
of
> > an
> > 8.
> >
> > Who said studying literature doesn't involve numbers?
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
>
> Yes, certainly agree, but I was thinking more in terms of Shade's quest to
> peer beyond life, of attaining 1881 (or 181) in life -- transcendence into
> (or just knowledge of) infinity from within life. See line 180-181:
> "Devoting all my twisted life to this / One task. Today I'm sixty-one.
> Waxwings".
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:04:01 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: CANTO ONE: doctor Colt
>
> Why no capital 'D' for 'doctor Colt?'
>
> Why 'Colt?'
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:19:09 -0400
> From: "charles albert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: Re: CANTO ONE: doctor Colt
>
> Oxymoron...
>
>
> Colt....young male horse........
>
> also possibly synechdotal
>
>
> Hippocrates - hippo - greek root for horse....
>
>
>
> love,
> cfa
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> To: <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 2:04 PM
> Subject: Re: CANTO ONE: doctor Colt
>
>
> > Why no capital 'D' for 'doctor Colt?'
> >
> > Why 'Colt?'
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:29:29 -0400 (EDT)
> From: <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 1: 1-4 some random notes
>
> Ah, interesting connections between the two poems and the two Johns. And
> of course there is also an additional linkage in the correspondence of
> the two Charles's, which all goes to suggest the ontological stakes for
> which VN is playing. Also sort of interesting, many Miltonists have
> stumbled on the subject of why Milton would have made Satan so
> attractive to readers. One of the more persistent arguments goes that
> Milton hadn't intended anything of the sort, but he was carried away by
> the power of poetry.
>
> Not the devil made me do it, but ...
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
> > Excellent points, Michael. And I couldn't help noticing some distinct
> > echoes of John Milton throughout Canto 1 of _Pale Fire_, especially the
> > sections of _Paradise Lost_ in which the Miltonic bard invokes the
> Muse, or
> > laments his loss of Sight in light of the need for poetic vision (cf.
Book
> > III, lines 1-32, for example). Of course secular Shade, who comes
> across as
> > somewhat arrogant in Canto 1 when describing the extent of his poetic
> vision
> > and ability, contrasts with the bard of _PL_ who, despite his desire to
> > create "things unattempted yet in prose or rhyme," assumes much more
> > humility as he struggles with the need for poetic inspiration.
> >
> > I don't have my copy of PF handy, but something tells me the back cover
> > (maybe?) describes the Shade poem as an "epic poem." This, of course,
is
> > hardly the case in the classical sense, but Milton (and the epic
> tradition)
> > was no doubt in the back of Nabokov's mind as he fashioned this longer
> poem,
> > written in a series of cantos (or books), and composed in a traditional
> > metric form, and dealing (in a way) with lofty themes.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael Joseph" <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu>
> > Cc: <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 11:49 AM
> > Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 1: 1-4 some random notes
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I was the shadow of the waxwing slain
> > > By the false azure in the windowpane;
> > > I was the smudge of ashen fluff--and I
> > > Lived on, flew on, in the reflected sky.
> > > And from the inside, too, I'd duplicate
> > > Myself. . . .
> > >
> > > "Slain" also echoes Biblical language, which is exactly right for
Shade
> > > who contemplates transcendence, or a "feigned" (i.e., supposed;
> imaginary)
> > > transcendence, a fairly conventional reading of "azure." The slaying
> could
> > > conceivably have a secondary meaning in that Shade's implicit wish to
> > > survive in his poetry is ironically granted in Kinbote's slaying of
its
> > > meaning and beauty. Kinbote of course peers in at Shade's
> windowpane, and
> > > just as "azure" signifies (See Milton) the vault of Heaven, it also
> > > signifies the blue color in coats of arms thus the "false azure" could
> > > well represent the clownish Kinbote's delusion of being the
self-exiled
> > > King Charles: a false King.
> > >
> > > If someone has discussed the form of the opening, I apologize for
> possible
> > > duplication, but I awnt to point out that it seems very like a form of
> > > Welsh poetry, such as we see for example in the Song of Amergin:
> > >
> > > "I am the womb of every holt,
> > > "I have been in many shapes....
> > > I am the blaze on every hill,
> > > I have been a drop in the air.
> > > I am the queen of every hive,
> > > I have been a shining star.
> > > I am the shield to every head,
> > > I have been a word in a book. ...
> > > I am the tomb to every hope."
> > > I have traveled, I have made a circuit,
> > > -- THE SONG OF AMERGIN.
> > >
> > > ... and The Hanes taliesin
> > >
> > > THE BATTLE OF THE TREES.
> > >
> > > "I have obtained the muse from the Cauldron of Cerridwen;
> > > I have been bard of the harp to Lleon of Lochlin;
> > > I have been on the White Hill, in the court of Cynvelyn...."
> > > -- THE HANES TALIESIN.
> > >
> > > ... which Nabokov could conceivably have seen in several places,
> > > including Graves's The White Goddess (1948).
> > >
> > > These poems are generally considered to be involved with religious
> beliefs
> > > and are incantatory - a telling choice for someone like Shade who, as
> > > Brian Boyd points out, has "dedicated his whole life to fighting the
> > > "inadmissible abyss" of death
> > > (http://www.libraries.psu.edu/iasweb/nabokov/boydpf1.htm), and for
> someone
> > > like Nabokov, of course, who famously said "I do not believe in
> time." The
> > > form is also possibly interesting for another, unrelated, reason: the
> > > voice of the poem is multiple; that is, the "I" does not refer to one
> > > single persona, but to multiple personae, or a transpersonal corporate
> > > identity.
> > >
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3440
> ********************************
.