Subject
Fw: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3439 PALE FIRE Canto I. (cont.)
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----- Original Message -----
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 12:00 AM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3439
>
> pynchon-l-digest Thursday, July 24 2003 Volume 02 : Number
3439
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:07:27 -0400
> From: "charles albert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: NPPF CANTO ONE: Maud PT 1 of 2
>
>>
> This has enjoyed a pretty good going over; the debate will come up again =
> later, but as to its appearance at this particular point, I wonder if =
> any of following might illuminate.
>
> "The intimate relationship between William Wordsworth, Samuel Taylor =
> Coleridge, and Dorothy Wordsworth comes through in their canonical =
> works. Dorothy's accounts are a valuable source of material on William, =
> offering insights into the themes and inspirations of his early poetry. =
> Themes of romance, incest, guilt, and familial breakdown and reunion can =
> all be studied in their works. Dorothy Wordsworth deserves long-overdue =
> credit for her influence on her brother's poetry, and also on the works =
> of Coleridge."
>
> =20
>
> http://www.yudev.com/mfo/britlit/wordsworth_dorothy.htm
>
> Romantic period it was more acceptable to partake in incest than =
> Although one might find it shocking in this day and age, during the =
> homosexual acts between males. Many writers, such as Byron, had =
> documented intimate relationships with their siblings, while others, =
> such as Wordsworth, are the subject of much specualtion. In some =
> instances these incestuous relationships are portrayed as being of pure =
> love, just as any normal relationship. However there are also =
> instances where the incest being represented is a rape occurring =
> between a father and his daughter. It wasn't until 1908 that English =
> society saw a change in the laws surrounding incest. Incest occuring =
> between fathers and daughters became illegal at that time.
>
> =20
>
> http://www.cohums.ohio-state.edu/English/People/Tannenbaum.1/studentwebs/=
> 01wi08047/Shabba2/Incest.html
>
>
> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:17:01 -0400
> From: "charles albert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: NPPF:CANTO ONE - MAUD Pt. 2 of 2
>
>
>
>
>
> Now that that incest thing has been resolved.....
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Twenty-one years old, unemployed, homeless, with tentative finances, =
> Wordsworth rambled about London and Wales over the next months, =
> continuing to turn down decent job offers and career prospects. The only =
> vague idea he could come up with was to go to France to pick up the =
> language so that he might become a tutor. Within four or five months of =
> his arrival at the end November 1791, a French woman he met was pregnant =
> by him. So too did he come under the heady sway of revolutionary ideas. =
> At the same stressful moment, then, Wordsworth was witness to the =
> frightening and unpredictable growth of the French revolution and =
> equally uncertain growth of his lover. He returned to England just weeks =
> before his daughter was born. The mother, Annette Vallon, expected =
> Wordsworth would return to her; Wordsworth's expectations were less =
> certain.
>
> So much for the idealized early years: a stressed-out mother, an =
> overworked father laboring for a hated boss, nasty relatives, the death =
> of the mother, the break-up of the siblings, the death of the father, no =
> sense of home; financial uncertainty, since it turned out that his =
> father never received payment for his work for Lowther (it took two =
> decades for the children to finally collect on the debt); an expensive =
> education but, despite strong family pressure, a refusal on Wordsworth's =
> part to take advantage of his considerable connections or to plan for =
> his future; all topped off by child fathered out of wedlock, left behind =
> in country his own would soon be gearing up for war with.
>
> A few months after leaving Annette, Wordsworth may have suffered a =
> nervous breakdown. Wordsworth, of course, knew all about feelings of =
> abandonment and loss, and he must have felt strong stirrings of guilt =
> when, in March 1793, she wrote to him: "Come, my love, my husband, and =
> receive the tender embraces of your wife, of your daughter .... She =
> grows more like you every day. I seem to be holding you in my arms." At =
> this time, he also began to write poetry dwelling on individual human =
> suffering and enigmatic feelings of guilt, isolation, and loneliness...
>
> As for the incest? Not likely. Try co-dependence.
>
> http://www.mtsn.org.uk/staff/staffpages/cer/wordsworth/intro_to_wordswort=
> h.htm
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:25:06 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Protocol Query/CANTO ONE
>
> - --- s~Z <keithsz@concentric.net> wrote:
> > Is one week going to be enough for CANTO ONE?
>
> There are no limits to this discussion. The present schedule limits no
> discussion. Party on.
>
> DM
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 23:51:55 -0400
>> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 23:59:04 -0400
> From: joeallonby <vze422fs@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF: CANTO ONE (1)
>
>
>
> It's probably a bicycle which would have two wheels and some kind of
tubular
> frame intersecting them and connecting them. This would be tangentially
> related to lemniscation, but that depends upon your definition of tangent.
> How it relates to the torus I'm not sure, but I'm a Virgo.
>
> on 7/23/03 10:58 AM, slothenvypride at slothenvypride7@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> Yowza! Don't know what that "Raleigh" object is, but this thread's
starting
> to turn me on!!
>
>
>
> Elainemmbell@aol.com wrote:
> I think I had a big pink Raleigh that did the lemniscate thing...early
60's?
>
>
>
>
> > From: joeallonby <vze422fs@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: AF and PF Canto One.
>
> Has Dimitri seen this?
>
> on 7/23/03 1:41 PM, Glenn Scheper at glenn_scheper@earthlink.net wrote:
>
> > From two basic premises (FF makes effete, AF restores),
> > I read 1-6 as evidence of the effete son, living as if
> > looking through a pane of glass that separates his, a
> > narrowly constrained diminished life, from real lives.
> >
> > If AF collapses the distinction, or makes oneself one's
> > own parent, ornithologist in 71-72 extends the AF=Bird
> > metaphor prevalent in poetics unto him who studies AF.
> > I have also wondered, does this rebirth as self-parent
> > only occur at the initial AF, or is it a regeneration
> > every time, yielding 1000's of self-parents, as at 74?
> >
> > 90: "She lived to hear the next babe cry." Since AF as
> > speech act assumes many tropes, including to cry, Maud
> > may await the chance to abuse each new infant with CL.
> >
> > 109-113: Iridule is much weighted elsewhere. Staring
> > reveals this trope: Since AF is used to infer, much as
> > a shaman's fetish to access what is transcendent, the
> > knowledge of some particular target partner in coitus;
> > separation of a rainbow from its thunderstorm reflects
> > this same split, much as Emily Dickinson (AC poetics!)
> > wrote once that she only wrote the syntax, leaving the
> > verb and pronoun out. The iridule is "strange" as the
> > hagios (saint) is uncommon, as AF and AC are uncommon.
> > The "oval form" is the posture, like Wallace Steven's
> > "ring-of-men". Since Revelation's opening of the first
> > seal marks virgin coitus with a whore, there sound of
> > thunder is attached to coitus--It is a non-speech act
> > paralleling the speech act of AF in its penile effect.
> >
> > 1-131-1000: I've seen three WaxWings slain (at 1:FF,
> > 131:AF, 1000:decease). Prone and supine always perk
> > up my ears: The prone-bypass-beneath of 143-145 sound
> > to me like the jumbled body position of AF. Tin tells
> > me of an effete son, living a tin soldier's non-life.
> >
> > 146-148 parallel exactly my experiences in an acute
> > psychosis that followed immediately upon my own AF:
> > First a grand illumination and mania of being Jesus,
> > then the despair of being unrecoverably lost, alone.
> >
> > For me, that act produced an internalized Other, and psychosis.
> > To wit: self-interpenetration produced the psychotic ideation
> > of a vase that was spontaneously crazing, becoming an evenly
> > distributed version of a Klein bottle, everywhere a boundary
> > where every possible extreme opposite met, touched, were one.
> >
> > So, this experience felt like the collapse of a wave function,
> > and I took interest in Hiroshima, as if it's event wave front
> > were just now passing over me. My self became an atomic bomb,
> > cringing with every heartbeat as if that were the final tick.
> >
> > At 161-163, this "tongue" is actually "penis" for I recall in
> > some extra-canonical work, Gospel of Thomas perhaps, that the
> > tongue of the beliver is the Holy Spirit: uncommon ejaculation.
> > Also the Fairie Queene made of AF a knight entering the cave
> > (his own mouth) of a female serpent, whose dugs (his own penis)
> > feed her offspring (himself), vomiting up words, books, etc.
> >
> > And of course, some slight shame of this abject domain lingers,
> > even for me who's quite the out theorist and expositor of AF.
> >
> > Yours truly,
> > Glenn Scheper
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~glenn_scheper/
> > glenn_scheper + at + earthlink.net
> > Copyleft(!) Forward freely.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>>
> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3439
> ********************************
.
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 12:00 AM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3439
>
> pynchon-l-digest Thursday, July 24 2003 Volume 02 : Number
3439
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:07:27 -0400
> From: "charles albert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: NPPF CANTO ONE: Maud PT 1 of 2
>
>>
> This has enjoyed a pretty good going over; the debate will come up again =
> later, but as to its appearance at this particular point, I wonder if =
> any of following might illuminate.
>
> "The intimate relationship between William Wordsworth, Samuel Taylor =
> Coleridge, and Dorothy Wordsworth comes through in their canonical =
> works. Dorothy's accounts are a valuable source of material on William, =
> offering insights into the themes and inspirations of his early poetry. =
> Themes of romance, incest, guilt, and familial breakdown and reunion can =
> all be studied in their works. Dorothy Wordsworth deserves long-overdue =
> credit for her influence on her brother's poetry, and also on the works =
> of Coleridge."
>
> =20
>
> http://www.yudev.com/mfo/britlit/wordsworth_dorothy.htm
>
> Romantic period it was more acceptable to partake in incest than =
> Although one might find it shocking in this day and age, during the =
> homosexual acts between males. Many writers, such as Byron, had =
> documented intimate relationships with their siblings, while others, =
> such as Wordsworth, are the subject of much specualtion. In some =
> instances these incestuous relationships are portrayed as being of pure =
> love, just as any normal relationship. However there are also =
> instances where the incest being represented is a rape occurring =
> between a father and his daughter. It wasn't until 1908 that English =
> society saw a change in the laws surrounding incest. Incest occuring =
> between fathers and daughters became illegal at that time.
>
> =20
>
> http://www.cohums.ohio-state.edu/English/People/Tannenbaum.1/studentwebs/=
> 01wi08047/Shabba2/Incest.html
>
>
> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:17:01 -0400
> From: "charles albert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: NPPF:CANTO ONE - MAUD Pt. 2 of 2
>
>
>
>
>
> Now that that incest thing has been resolved.....
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Twenty-one years old, unemployed, homeless, with tentative finances, =
> Wordsworth rambled about London and Wales over the next months, =
> continuing to turn down decent job offers and career prospects. The only =
> vague idea he could come up with was to go to France to pick up the =
> language so that he might become a tutor. Within four or five months of =
> his arrival at the end November 1791, a French woman he met was pregnant =
> by him. So too did he come under the heady sway of revolutionary ideas. =
> At the same stressful moment, then, Wordsworth was witness to the =
> frightening and unpredictable growth of the French revolution and =
> equally uncertain growth of his lover. He returned to England just weeks =
> before his daughter was born. The mother, Annette Vallon, expected =
> Wordsworth would return to her; Wordsworth's expectations were less =
> certain.
>
> So much for the idealized early years: a stressed-out mother, an =
> overworked father laboring for a hated boss, nasty relatives, the death =
> of the mother, the break-up of the siblings, the death of the father, no =
> sense of home; financial uncertainty, since it turned out that his =
> father never received payment for his work for Lowther (it took two =
> decades for the children to finally collect on the debt); an expensive =
> education but, despite strong family pressure, a refusal on Wordsworth's =
> part to take advantage of his considerable connections or to plan for =
> his future; all topped off by child fathered out of wedlock, left behind =
> in country his own would soon be gearing up for war with.
>
> A few months after leaving Annette, Wordsworth may have suffered a =
> nervous breakdown. Wordsworth, of course, knew all about feelings of =
> abandonment and loss, and he must have felt strong stirrings of guilt =
> when, in March 1793, she wrote to him: "Come, my love, my husband, and =
> receive the tender embraces of your wife, of your daughter .... She =
> grows more like you every day. I seem to be holding you in my arms." At =
> this time, he also began to write poetry dwelling on individual human =
> suffering and enigmatic feelings of guilt, isolation, and loneliness...
>
> As for the incest? Not likely. Try co-dependence.
>
> http://www.mtsn.org.uk/staff/staffpages/cer/wordsworth/intro_to_wordswort=
> h.htm
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:25:06 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Protocol Query/CANTO ONE
>
> - --- s~Z <keithsz@concentric.net> wrote:
> > Is one week going to be enough for CANTO ONE?
>
> There are no limits to this discussion. The present schedule limits no
> discussion. Party on.
>
> DM
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 23:51:55 -0400
>> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 23:59:04 -0400
> From: joeallonby <vze422fs@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF: CANTO ONE (1)
>
>
>
> It's probably a bicycle which would have two wheels and some kind of
tubular
> frame intersecting them and connecting them. This would be tangentially
> related to lemniscation, but that depends upon your definition of tangent.
> How it relates to the torus I'm not sure, but I'm a Virgo.
>
> on 7/23/03 10:58 AM, slothenvypride at slothenvypride7@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> Yowza! Don't know what that "Raleigh" object is, but this thread's
starting
> to turn me on!!
>
>
>
> Elainemmbell@aol.com wrote:
> I think I had a big pink Raleigh that did the lemniscate thing...early
60's?
>
>
>
>
> > From: joeallonby <vze422fs@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: AF and PF Canto One.
>
> Has Dimitri seen this?
>
> on 7/23/03 1:41 PM, Glenn Scheper at glenn_scheper@earthlink.net wrote:
>
> > From two basic premises (FF makes effete, AF restores),
> > I read 1-6 as evidence of the effete son, living as if
> > looking through a pane of glass that separates his, a
> > narrowly constrained diminished life, from real lives.
> >
> > If AF collapses the distinction, or makes oneself one's
> > own parent, ornithologist in 71-72 extends the AF=Bird
> > metaphor prevalent in poetics unto him who studies AF.
> > I have also wondered, does this rebirth as self-parent
> > only occur at the initial AF, or is it a regeneration
> > every time, yielding 1000's of self-parents, as at 74?
> >
> > 90: "She lived to hear the next babe cry." Since AF as
> > speech act assumes many tropes, including to cry, Maud
> > may await the chance to abuse each new infant with CL.
> >
> > 109-113: Iridule is much weighted elsewhere. Staring
> > reveals this trope: Since AF is used to infer, much as
> > a shaman's fetish to access what is transcendent, the
> > knowledge of some particular target partner in coitus;
> > separation of a rainbow from its thunderstorm reflects
> > this same split, much as Emily Dickinson (AC poetics!)
> > wrote once that she only wrote the syntax, leaving the
> > verb and pronoun out. The iridule is "strange" as the
> > hagios (saint) is uncommon, as AF and AC are uncommon.
> > The "oval form" is the posture, like Wallace Steven's
> > "ring-of-men". Since Revelation's opening of the first
> > seal marks virgin coitus with a whore, there sound of
> > thunder is attached to coitus--It is a non-speech act
> > paralleling the speech act of AF in its penile effect.
> >
> > 1-131-1000: I've seen three WaxWings slain (at 1:FF,
> > 131:AF, 1000:decease). Prone and supine always perk
> > up my ears: The prone-bypass-beneath of 143-145 sound
> > to me like the jumbled body position of AF. Tin tells
> > me of an effete son, living a tin soldier's non-life.
> >
> > 146-148 parallel exactly my experiences in an acute
> > psychosis that followed immediately upon my own AF:
> > First a grand illumination and mania of being Jesus,
> > then the despair of being unrecoverably lost, alone.
> >
> > For me, that act produced an internalized Other, and psychosis.
> > To wit: self-interpenetration produced the psychotic ideation
> > of a vase that was spontaneously crazing, becoming an evenly
> > distributed version of a Klein bottle, everywhere a boundary
> > where every possible extreme opposite met, touched, were one.
> >
> > So, this experience felt like the collapse of a wave function,
> > and I took interest in Hiroshima, as if it's event wave front
> > were just now passing over me. My self became an atomic bomb,
> > cringing with every heartbeat as if that were the final tick.
> >
> > At 161-163, this "tongue" is actually "penis" for I recall in
> > some extra-canonical work, Gospel of Thomas perhaps, that the
> > tongue of the beliver is the Holy Spirit: uncommon ejaculation.
> > Also the Fairie Queene made of AF a knight entering the cave
> > (his own mouth) of a female serpent, whose dugs (his own penis)
> > feed her offspring (himself), vomiting up words, books, etc.
> >
> > And of course, some slight shame of this abject domain lingers,
> > even for me who's quite the out theorist and expositor of AF.
> >
> > Yours truly,
> > Glenn Scheper
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~glenn_scheper/
> > glenn_scheper + at + earthlink.net
> > Copyleft(!) Forward freely.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>>
> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3439
> ********************************
.