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Fw: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3409 PALE FIRE
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----- Original Message -----
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 12:44 PM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3409
>
> pynchon-l-digest Monday, July 14 2003 Volume 02 : Number
3409
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:36:04 -0400
> From: The Great Quail <quail@libyrinth.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (3)
>
> > He says the poem has been proofed, if not the
> > commentary.
> >
> > And the very next sentence: "insert before a
> > professional." Followed by "A professional ..."
>
> Yeah, I find this a very puzzling item, and it seems to be a "clue" to
> *something.* Did the proofreader who looked at the poem also look at the
> foreword, but Kinbote, being rather in a tizzy, failed to note a comment?
Or
> is it a note by Kinbote to himself that was accidentally retained?
>
> - --Q
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:39:42 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Foreword - Notes (2)
>
> - --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> >
> > I was going to accuse you of attempting to violate the laws of time and
> precedence
>
> Oops! Right. The bestseller came out in 1973. So N probably didn't know
about
> her.
>
> DM
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:38:12 -0400
> From: "cfalbert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: Re: The Introduction
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Toby G Levy" <tobylevy@juno.com>
> To: <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 9:31 AM
> Subject: NPPF: The Introduction
>
>
> > 10. hoary forelock (21)
>
> "Hoary" - grey or white with age....
>
> forelock - think bangs, the follicle curtain above your brow.....
>
> as in
>
> "Seize Fortune by the forelock, for She is bald behind"
>
> > 11. extramural (21)
>
> literally 'outside the walls of'.......
>
> > 13. Hogarthian (26)
>
> In the manner of William Hogarth, english illustrator and social
> commentator.........Hogarth chronicled the lives of the 'hoi polloi' in a
> Breugelesque fashion....
>
> love,
> cfa
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:41:33 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (3)
>
> On
> > Behalf Of Malignd
> >
> > <<Page 18: "I alone am responsible for any mistakes in
> > my commentary." Kinbote's acknowledgement is further
> > evidence that his manuscript has not been proof-read
> > or edited by anyone other than himself.>>
> >
> > Not entirely true, is it?
> >
> > He says the poem has been proofed, if not the
> > commentary.
> >
> > And the very next sentence: "insert before a
> > professional." Followed by "A professional ..."
> >
> > --suggests he expects the commentary will be proofed
> > and edited as (but also that it hasn't been).
> >
> >
>
> You're right. I suppose "proof-read or edited" should be "fact-checked",
in
> that Kinbote's claims have not be verified by a third party (too bad for
the
> reader!).
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:41:55 +0100
> From: "Burns, Erik" <Erik.Burns@dowjones.com>
> Subject: re: NPPF: preliminary - epigraph
>
> Foax:
>
> Bandwraith wrote:
>
> >Interesting, but I would submit that Oedipa is completely sane.
> >She has insight into all the possibilities, including that she may
> >be hallucinating.
>
> Agreed. I didn't mean to imply she wasn't when I said she and Kinbote are
at
> different points on the madness scale. She is on the sane end, for sure,
and
> he isn't, for sure. My proposition is only that she is damn near crossing
> over ... and the novel ends before we know whether she will or not.
>
> In Kinbote's case, it's way too late for him to go back, and he would
never
> think the things Oedipa does, especially that the whole thing is a
practical
> joke being played on him -- which, I'd say, is more true in his case than
in
> hers, the practical joker, natch, being VN.
>
> etb
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:42:53 -0400
> From: <gumbo@fuse.net>
> Subject: Re: VLVL2 (1): Missing Links
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> - ------=____1058197373697_C3Xp.XM8rg
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>
> > > 2. "An elegant little imported-looking chain saw, about the size of
a Mini-Mac" (4.28). Does anyone know if there is an actual chainsaw
designed like this? And what exactly is a Mini-Mac?
>
> Mac-10 machine pistol, I think.
>
> D.C.
>
>
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:45:43 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: NPPF - Foreword - VLVL Convergence
>
> Tim's done a great job at composing some questions and thoughts that might
> help converge VL and PF. I however have not. If anyone has ideas in this
> direction, I'm sure we would all be interested in hearing them; otherwise
be
> sure to see Tim's "Commentary and Questions" posts.
>
> akaLoserFidget
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:51:16 +0100
> From: "James Kyllo" <jkyllo@clara.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (3)
>
> >Page 18:
> >"I alone am responsible for any mistakes in my commentary." Kinbote's
> >acknowledgement is further evidence that his manuscript has not been
> >proof-read or edited by anyone other than himself.
>
>
> So, are the occasional typos in the book Kinbote's or (in my case)
> Penguin's? They don't appear significant to me... (examples: misspelled
> chthonic in poem line 370; stray apostrophe in commentary to line 49)
>
> James
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:53:53 +0100
> From: "James Kyllo" <jkyllo@clara.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Notes (1)
>
> >
> > John Shade was born on July 5, 1898. Charles Kinbote and Jacob Gradus
> were
> > also both born on July 5 (see 161, 275 respectively). They all die in
> 1959
> > (or at least evidence suggests that K has committed suicide). John
Shade
> > died July 21, 1959.
>
> Also born on July 5th - Jean Cocteau (1889)
> Born on July 21st - Ernest Hemingway (1899)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:58:48 +0100
> From: "James Kyllo" <jkyllo@clara.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (3)
>
> >"I wanted to buy some chocolate-coated cookies" -- one gets the sense
> >Kinbote buys all sorts of stuff lure young boys home.
>
> And caviar - which I thought an odd thing for a vegetarian to be buying.
> Perhaps young boys like caviar too.
>
>
> James
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:55:57 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Malignd <malignd@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (3)
>
> <Quail:
>
> <Yeah, I find this a very puzzling item, and it seems
> to be a "clue" to *something.* Did the proofreader who
> looked at the poem also look at the foreword, but
> Kinbote, being rather in a tizzy, failed to note a
> comment? Or is it a note by Kinbote to himself that
> was accidentally retained?>>
>
> Kinbote says he was asked by Frank, his publisher, to
> mention that he alone is responsible for mistakes in
> his commentary. So he writes:
>
> "Frank has acknowledged the safe return of the galleys
> I had been sent here and has asked me to mention in my
> Preface ..." etc.
>
> In short this is the response to Frank's request
> (itself mentioning the request) and "[i]nsert before a
> professional" his direction to the typesetter.
>
> It suggests that the publishing of the book may indeed
> have been going forward as Kinbote describes, but may
> never have reached completion (perhaps because of
> Kinbote's suicide? (although that's another issue)),
> and so we the readers are reading a late draft.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:02:22 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (3)
>
> On
> > Behalf Of The Great Quail
> >
> > Yeah, I find this a very puzzling item, and it seems to be a "clue" to
> > *something.* Did the proofreader who looked at the poem also look at the
> > foreword, but Kinbote, being rather in a tizzy, failed to note a
comment?
> > Or
> > is it a note by Kinbote to himself that was accidentally retained?
> >
> > --Q
>
> Isn't it fairly safe to assume that the Foreword at least has not been
> proofed? How else would something like "a loud amusement park" remain?
> Unless the publisher had decided to treat the whole work as fiction...?
>
> "Frank has acknowledged the safe return of the galleys I had been sent
here
> and has asked me to mention in my Preface -- and this I willingly do --
that
> I alone am responsible [...]" (18).
>
> If upon receipt of the galleys, Frank *then* asked K to add the above
text,
> how did that text get into the galleys that had already been returned?
> There's an unknowable gap here between the writing of the Foreword and the
> actual printing.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:01:28 -0400
> From: <gumbo@fuse.net>
> Subject: Re: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (3)
>
> Okay, I guess there are at least two ways to reconstruct how the "Insert
before a professional" interjection got in the text.
>
> My first thought was that it was a slightly garbled version of a proofing
note to insert the word "professional" before the word "proofreader."
>
> It makes more sense as a note that was set in type by mistake at the
bottom of the text insert, which is the preceding sentence: "Frank has
acknowledged the safe return..."
>
> A much neater explanation. The inserted sentence is something that _would_
have to be inserted, the product of a note from the publisher to the editor
after a review of the galley proofs.
>
> My take on this is still that it shows there was a process of preparing
the manuscript for publication under way. Seems to me the (fictional)
typesetter's mistaken inclusion of the instruction is a pretty pointed
indication that hands other than Kinbote's were at work on the project.
(That is, that the poem and commentary have a reality outside of Kinbote's
delusion.)
>
> Don Corathers
>
>
> >
> > From: The Great Quail <quail@libyrinth.com>
> > Date: 2003/07/14 Mon AM 11:36:04 EDT
> > To: The Whole Sick Crew <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> > Subject: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (3)
> >
> > > He says the poem has been proofed, if not the
> > > commentary.
> > >
> > > And the very next sentence: "insert before a
> > > professional." Followed by "A professional ..."
> >
> > Yeah, I find this a very puzzling item, and it seems to be a "clue" to
> > *something.* Did the proofreader who looked at the poem also look at the
> > foreword, but Kinbote, being rather in a tizzy, failed to note a
comment? Or
> > is it a note by Kinbote to himself that was accidentally retained?
> >
> > --Q
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:03:57 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (3)
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: James Kyllo [mailto:jkyllo@clara.net]
> > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 11:59 AM
> > To: Jasper Fidget; pynchon-l@waste.org
> > Subject: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (3)
> >
> >
> > >"I wanted to buy some chocolate-coated cookies" -- one gets the sense
> > >Kinbote buys all sorts of stuff lure young boys home.
> >
> > And caviar - which I thought an odd thing for a vegetarian to be buying.
> > Perhaps young boys like caviar too.
> >
> >
> > James
>
> I don't even *want* to speculate on what he does with the caviar!
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:07:05 +0100
> From: "James Kyllo" <jkyllo@clara.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Notes (2)
>
> >Page 20:
> >"his abundant gray hair looked berimed in the sun"
> >"berime, berhyme: Compose rhymes about; lampoon in rhyme."
>
> Obviously made a big impression on Kinbote. First of three mentions for
the
> grey hair in the foreword, (Four with the hoary forelock) and more in the
> notes.
>
> Similar to Kinbote's inability to mention his car (later boat) without
> prefacing the word "powerful"
>
> >Page 22:
> >"powerful Kramler": presumably referring to Daimler: a German engineer --
> >Gottlieb Daimler (1834-1900) -- who together with Karl Benz (1844-1929)
and
> >others created the first lightweight, high-speed internal combustion
engine
> >for a land vehicle; and an automobile manufacturer: Daimler-Benz (now
> >Daimler-Chrysler).
>
> Also note: Kram = rubbish in German language
>
>
> James
>
> ------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:19:01 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (3)
>
> - --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> >
> > Isn't it fairly safe to assume that the Foreword at least has not been
> proofed? How else would something like "a loud amusement park" remain?
>
> K later corrects himself, saying that the noise was from some loud toursts
or
> campers (I forget). But he says he's just going to leave his initial
comment
> as is, because he's not interested in being bothered with fixing it. It's
a
> bit strange, suggesting that the whole thing is comming out of K as if it
were
> a linear stream, which would be impossible seeing that he early on points
the
> reader to notes near the end. Its production would have to have been
> recursive.
>
> DM
>
>
> __________________________________
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:26:09 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Notes (2)
>
> - --- James Kyllo <jkyllo@clara.net> wrote:
> >
> > Similar to Kinbote's inability to mention his car (later boat) without
> prefacing the word "powerful"
> >
> > >Page 22:
> > >"powerful Kramler"
>
> Obviously following the cliche of auto as phallic symbol, from someone who
> hated Freud. For me the name sounds like "Rambler."
>
> http://www.amcrc.com/
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:35:09 +0100
> From: "Burns, Erik" <Erik.Burns@dowjones.com>
> Subject: Warning: Not Pynchon Related
>
> Foax:
>
> this is potentially spam, potentially useful to some of you. imho.
> http://mlagen.sourceforge.net/
> i take no responsibility for whether it's reliable software; but it was
> flagged by the "Lockergnomies" today, usually not a bad referrer.
> (www.lockergnome.com).
>
> "MLA Auto-Generator is an incredible piece of free software that allows
you
> to quickly and effortlessly format your documents' works cited lists in
> complete accordance with the latest MLA or APA style guidelines. MLA
> Auto-Generator will automatically churn out a perfect bibliography entry,
> every time."
>
> etb
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:48:00 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (3)
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David Morris [mailto:fqmorris@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 12:19 PM
> > To: Jasper Fidget; 'The Whole Sick Crew'
> > Subject: RE: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (3)
> >
> >
> > --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Isn't it fairly safe to assume that the Foreword at least has not been
> > proofed? How else would something like "a loud amusement park" remain?
> >
> > K later corrects himself, saying that the noise was from some loud
toursts
> > or
> > campers (I forget). But he says he's just going to leave his initial
> > comment
> > as is, because he's not interested in being bothered with fixing it.
It's
> > a
> > bit strange, suggesting that the whole thing is comming out of K as if
it
> > were
> > a linear stream, which would be impossible seeing that he early on
points
> > the
> > reader to notes near the end. Its production would have to have been
> > recursive.
> >
> > DM
> >
> >
>
> Yes, exactly -- it seems contradictory. See p. 15: "(See my note to line
> 991)", and p. 17: "As mentioned, I think, in my last note to the poem",
both
> referring to the commentary as if it already exists, but then Note to
> 609-614 (p. 234-235): "diabolical radio music from what I thought was some
> kind of amusement park across the road -- it turned out to be camping
> tourists."
>
> It's like the entire thing has been put together out of order (Note to 991
> and Note to 1000 at least preceding the Foreword, but Note to 609-614
> occurring afterwards).
>
> A possible explanation is that it was actually written in discrete groups,
> and not according to the structure of the poem at all. The notes to 991
and
> 1000 take place in New Wye, as do all of the cross-references cascading
from
> C.991. The set of notes taking place in Zembla, and those discussing only
> the poem itself must have been next, and those notes concerning K's exile
in
> Utana must have been written last.
>
> ajaKasper
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:59:48 -0400
> From: The Great Quail <quail@libyrinth.com>
> Subject: NPPF -- Hogarth
>
> >> 13. Hogarthian (26)
> >
> > In the manner of William Hogarth, english illustrator and social
> > commentator.........Hogarth chronicled the lives of the 'hoi polloi' in
a
> > Breugelesque fashion....
>
> To add to this, Stravinsky's one opera, "The Rake's Progress," is based on
> Hogarth's illustrations. Composed in English from 1948-1951, the poet W.
H.
> Auden wrote the libretto. The opera is sort of an ironic mock-Mozart piece
> detailing a Faustian contract between one Tom Rakewell and the
> Mephistophelean Nick Shadow.
>
> Not that I think Nabokov really had this in mind, but I couldn't refrain
> from an opera mention, especially given: Russian ex-pat working in English
> with a poet over a character named Shadow....
>
> - --Quail
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:09:48 -0400
> From: The Great Quail <quail@libyrinth.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (1)
>
> Great job on the foreword, Jasper! Well done.
>
> > the odd and
> > inexplicable "your favorite"
>
> I find it to be a bit of anticipatory sarcasm, given K's later comments on
> that Canto....
>
> - --Quail
>
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:37:19 -0400
> From: <gumbo@fuse.net>
> Subject: Re: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (1)
>
> And the use of the second person? Who is the "you" being addressed?
>
> D.C.
>
>
> >
> > > the odd and
> > > inexplicable "your favorite"
> >
> > I find it to be a bit of anticipatory sarcasm, given K's later comments
on
> > that Canto....
> >
> > --Quail
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:16:10 -0400
> From: The Great Quail <quail@libyrinth.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (1)
>
> >>> the odd and
> >>> inexplicable "your favorite"
> >>
> >> I find it to be a bit of anticipatory sarcasm, given K's later comments
on
> >> that Canto....
>
> > And the use of the second person? Who is the "you" being addressed?
>
> The Gentle Reader of futurity....
>
> - --Q
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:19:45 -0400
> From: "cfalbert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: PF/Onegin/Kinbote
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> - ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C34A12.F9833C20
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> Anyone who hasn't already done so should should seek out a copy of =
> Nabokov's translation of Onegin...........just to see it and palm its =
> considerable heft........think a 5"X8" Manhattan white =
> pages.............
>
> Even if you don't know diddly about the poem, leaf through VOLUME II for =
> the commentaries - there is much there which informs Kinbote......
>
> The note starting on pg 182 will echo in PF, and offers a (likely =
> co-incidental) COL49 tendril......
>
> love,
> cfa
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:23:24 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF: Epigraph (not the pissing contest)
>
> - --- gumbo@fuse.net wrote:
> >
> > [Of which Kinbote writes] Too staid? Know too little? Had my poor friend
> precognized _who_ that would be, he would have been spared those
conjectures.
> As a matter of fact I had the pleasure and honor of witnessing (one March
> morning) the performance he describes in the next lines. [┘]
> >
> > Clearly suggesting that Kinbote did consider himself a Boswell to
Shade▓s
> Johnson.
>
> I'm sure K would loved to have Boswelled Shade's Johnson...
>
> DM
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:34:39 -0400
> From: "cfalbert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: PF/Borges
>
>
> and I also emphatically recommend reading Borges' "Pierre Menard, Author =
> of the Quixote" - only takes about 15 minutes.....
>
> Someone was kind enough to link to a full text version, but I can't seem =
> to find either the post or the link.....
>
> love,
> cfa
>
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Morris" <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> To: "James Kyllo" <jkyllo@clara.net>; <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 12:26 PM
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Notes (2)
>
>
> >
> > --- James Kyllo <jkyllo@clara.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > Similar to Kinbote's inability to mention his car (later boat) without
> > prefacing the word "powerful"
> > >
> > > >Page 22:
> > > >"powerful Kramler"
> >
> > Obviously following the cliche of auto as phallic symbol, from someone
who
> > hated Freud. For me the name sounds like "Rambler."
> >
> > http://www.amcrc.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3409
>
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 12:44 PM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3409
>
> pynchon-l-digest Monday, July 14 2003 Volume 02 : Number
3409
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:36:04 -0400
> From: The Great Quail <quail@libyrinth.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (3)
>
> > He says the poem has been proofed, if not the
> > commentary.
> >
> > And the very next sentence: "insert before a
> > professional." Followed by "A professional ..."
>
> Yeah, I find this a very puzzling item, and it seems to be a "clue" to
> *something.* Did the proofreader who looked at the poem also look at the
> foreword, but Kinbote, being rather in a tizzy, failed to note a comment?
Or
> is it a note by Kinbote to himself that was accidentally retained?
>
> - --Q
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:39:42 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Foreword - Notes (2)
>
> - --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> >
> > I was going to accuse you of attempting to violate the laws of time and
> precedence
>
> Oops! Right. The bestseller came out in 1973. So N probably didn't know
about
> her.
>
> DM
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:38:12 -0400
> From: "cfalbert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: Re: The Introduction
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Toby G Levy" <tobylevy@juno.com>
> To: <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 9:31 AM
> Subject: NPPF: The Introduction
>
>
> > 10. hoary forelock (21)
>
> "Hoary" - grey or white with age....
>
> forelock - think bangs, the follicle curtain above your brow.....
>
> as in
>
> "Seize Fortune by the forelock, for She is bald behind"
>
> > 11. extramural (21)
>
> literally 'outside the walls of'.......
>
> > 13. Hogarthian (26)
>
> In the manner of William Hogarth, english illustrator and social
> commentator.........Hogarth chronicled the lives of the 'hoi polloi' in a
> Breugelesque fashion....
>
> love,
> cfa
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:41:33 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (3)
>
> On
> > Behalf Of Malignd
> >
> > <<Page 18: "I alone am responsible for any mistakes in
> > my commentary." Kinbote's acknowledgement is further
> > evidence that his manuscript has not been proof-read
> > or edited by anyone other than himself.>>
> >
> > Not entirely true, is it?
> >
> > He says the poem has been proofed, if not the
> > commentary.
> >
> > And the very next sentence: "insert before a
> > professional." Followed by "A professional ..."
> >
> > --suggests he expects the commentary will be proofed
> > and edited as (but also that it hasn't been).
> >
> >
>
> You're right. I suppose "proof-read or edited" should be "fact-checked",
in
> that Kinbote's claims have not be verified by a third party (too bad for
the
> reader!).
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:41:55 +0100
> From: "Burns, Erik" <Erik.Burns@dowjones.com>
> Subject: re: NPPF: preliminary - epigraph
>
> Foax:
>
> Bandwraith wrote:
>
> >Interesting, but I would submit that Oedipa is completely sane.
> >She has insight into all the possibilities, including that she may
> >be hallucinating.
>
> Agreed. I didn't mean to imply she wasn't when I said she and Kinbote are
at
> different points on the madness scale. She is on the sane end, for sure,
and
> he isn't, for sure. My proposition is only that she is damn near crossing
> over ... and the novel ends before we know whether she will or not.
>
> In Kinbote's case, it's way too late for him to go back, and he would
never
> think the things Oedipa does, especially that the whole thing is a
practical
> joke being played on him -- which, I'd say, is more true in his case than
in
> hers, the practical joker, natch, being VN.
>
> etb
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:42:53 -0400
> From: <gumbo@fuse.net>
> Subject: Re: VLVL2 (1): Missing Links
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> - ------=____1058197373697_C3Xp.XM8rg
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>
> > > 2. "An elegant little imported-looking chain saw, about the size of
a Mini-Mac" (4.28). Does anyone know if there is an actual chainsaw
designed like this? And what exactly is a Mini-Mac?
>
> Mac-10 machine pistol, I think.
>
> D.C.
>
>
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:45:43 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: NPPF - Foreword - VLVL Convergence
>
> Tim's done a great job at composing some questions and thoughts that might
> help converge VL and PF. I however have not. If anyone has ideas in this
> direction, I'm sure we would all be interested in hearing them; otherwise
be
> sure to see Tim's "Commentary and Questions" posts.
>
> akaLoserFidget
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:51:16 +0100
> From: "James Kyllo" <jkyllo@clara.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (3)
>
> >Page 18:
> >"I alone am responsible for any mistakes in my commentary." Kinbote's
> >acknowledgement is further evidence that his manuscript has not been
> >proof-read or edited by anyone other than himself.
>
>
> So, are the occasional typos in the book Kinbote's or (in my case)
> Penguin's? They don't appear significant to me... (examples: misspelled
> chthonic in poem line 370; stray apostrophe in commentary to line 49)
>
> James
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:53:53 +0100
> From: "James Kyllo" <jkyllo@clara.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Notes (1)
>
> >
> > John Shade was born on July 5, 1898. Charles Kinbote and Jacob Gradus
> were
> > also both born on July 5 (see 161, 275 respectively). They all die in
> 1959
> > (or at least evidence suggests that K has committed suicide). John
Shade
> > died July 21, 1959.
>
> Also born on July 5th - Jean Cocteau (1889)
> Born on July 21st - Ernest Hemingway (1899)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:58:48 +0100
> From: "James Kyllo" <jkyllo@clara.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (3)
>
> >"I wanted to buy some chocolate-coated cookies" -- one gets the sense
> >Kinbote buys all sorts of stuff lure young boys home.
>
> And caviar - which I thought an odd thing for a vegetarian to be buying.
> Perhaps young boys like caviar too.
>
>
> James
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:55:57 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Malignd <malignd@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (3)
>
> <Quail:
>
> <Yeah, I find this a very puzzling item, and it seems
> to be a "clue" to *something.* Did the proofreader who
> looked at the poem also look at the foreword, but
> Kinbote, being rather in a tizzy, failed to note a
> comment? Or is it a note by Kinbote to himself that
> was accidentally retained?>>
>
> Kinbote says he was asked by Frank, his publisher, to
> mention that he alone is responsible for mistakes in
> his commentary. So he writes:
>
> "Frank has acknowledged the safe return of the galleys
> I had been sent here and has asked me to mention in my
> Preface ..." etc.
>
> In short this is the response to Frank's request
> (itself mentioning the request) and "[i]nsert before a
> professional" his direction to the typesetter.
>
> It suggests that the publishing of the book may indeed
> have been going forward as Kinbote describes, but may
> never have reached completion (perhaps because of
> Kinbote's suicide? (although that's another issue)),
> and so we the readers are reading a late draft.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:02:22 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (3)
>
> On
> > Behalf Of The Great Quail
> >
> > Yeah, I find this a very puzzling item, and it seems to be a "clue" to
> > *something.* Did the proofreader who looked at the poem also look at the
> > foreword, but Kinbote, being rather in a tizzy, failed to note a
comment?
> > Or
> > is it a note by Kinbote to himself that was accidentally retained?
> >
> > --Q
>
> Isn't it fairly safe to assume that the Foreword at least has not been
> proofed? How else would something like "a loud amusement park" remain?
> Unless the publisher had decided to treat the whole work as fiction...?
>
> "Frank has acknowledged the safe return of the galleys I had been sent
here
> and has asked me to mention in my Preface -- and this I willingly do --
that
> I alone am responsible [...]" (18).
>
> If upon receipt of the galleys, Frank *then* asked K to add the above
text,
> how did that text get into the galleys that had already been returned?
> There's an unknowable gap here between the writing of the Foreword and the
> actual printing.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:01:28 -0400
> From: <gumbo@fuse.net>
> Subject: Re: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (3)
>
> Okay, I guess there are at least two ways to reconstruct how the "Insert
before a professional" interjection got in the text.
>
> My first thought was that it was a slightly garbled version of a proofing
note to insert the word "professional" before the word "proofreader."
>
> It makes more sense as a note that was set in type by mistake at the
bottom of the text insert, which is the preceding sentence: "Frank has
acknowledged the safe return..."
>
> A much neater explanation. The inserted sentence is something that _would_
have to be inserted, the product of a note from the publisher to the editor
after a review of the galley proofs.
>
> My take on this is still that it shows there was a process of preparing
the manuscript for publication under way. Seems to me the (fictional)
typesetter's mistaken inclusion of the instruction is a pretty pointed
indication that hands other than Kinbote's were at work on the project.
(That is, that the poem and commentary have a reality outside of Kinbote's
delusion.)
>
> Don Corathers
>
>
> >
> > From: The Great Quail <quail@libyrinth.com>
> > Date: 2003/07/14 Mon AM 11:36:04 EDT
> > To: The Whole Sick Crew <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> > Subject: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (3)
> >
> > > He says the poem has been proofed, if not the
> > > commentary.
> > >
> > > And the very next sentence: "insert before a
> > > professional." Followed by "A professional ..."
> >
> > Yeah, I find this a very puzzling item, and it seems to be a "clue" to
> > *something.* Did the proofreader who looked at the poem also look at the
> > foreword, but Kinbote, being rather in a tizzy, failed to note a
comment? Or
> > is it a note by Kinbote to himself that was accidentally retained?
> >
> > --Q
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:03:57 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (3)
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: James Kyllo [mailto:jkyllo@clara.net]
> > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 11:59 AM
> > To: Jasper Fidget; pynchon-l@waste.org
> > Subject: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (3)
> >
> >
> > >"I wanted to buy some chocolate-coated cookies" -- one gets the sense
> > >Kinbote buys all sorts of stuff lure young boys home.
> >
> > And caviar - which I thought an odd thing for a vegetarian to be buying.
> > Perhaps young boys like caviar too.
> >
> >
> > James
>
> I don't even *want* to speculate on what he does with the caviar!
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:07:05 +0100
> From: "James Kyllo" <jkyllo@clara.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Notes (2)
>
> >Page 20:
> >"his abundant gray hair looked berimed in the sun"
> >"berime, berhyme: Compose rhymes about; lampoon in rhyme."
>
> Obviously made a big impression on Kinbote. First of three mentions for
the
> grey hair in the foreword, (Four with the hoary forelock) and more in the
> notes.
>
> Similar to Kinbote's inability to mention his car (later boat) without
> prefacing the word "powerful"
>
> >Page 22:
> >"powerful Kramler": presumably referring to Daimler: a German engineer --
> >Gottlieb Daimler (1834-1900) -- who together with Karl Benz (1844-1929)
and
> >others created the first lightweight, high-speed internal combustion
engine
> >for a land vehicle; and an automobile manufacturer: Daimler-Benz (now
> >Daimler-Chrysler).
>
> Also note: Kram = rubbish in German language
>
>
> James
>
> ------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:19:01 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (3)
>
> - --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> >
> > Isn't it fairly safe to assume that the Foreword at least has not been
> proofed? How else would something like "a loud amusement park" remain?
>
> K later corrects himself, saying that the noise was from some loud toursts
or
> campers (I forget). But he says he's just going to leave his initial
comment
> as is, because he's not interested in being bothered with fixing it. It's
a
> bit strange, suggesting that the whole thing is comming out of K as if it
were
> a linear stream, which would be impossible seeing that he early on points
the
> reader to notes near the end. Its production would have to have been
> recursive.
>
> DM
>
>
> __________________________________
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:26:09 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Notes (2)
>
> - --- James Kyllo <jkyllo@clara.net> wrote:
> >
> > Similar to Kinbote's inability to mention his car (later boat) without
> prefacing the word "powerful"
> >
> > >Page 22:
> > >"powerful Kramler"
>
> Obviously following the cliche of auto as phallic symbol, from someone who
> hated Freud. For me the name sounds like "Rambler."
>
> http://www.amcrc.com/
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:35:09 +0100
> From: "Burns, Erik" <Erik.Burns@dowjones.com>
> Subject: Warning: Not Pynchon Related
>
> Foax:
>
> this is potentially spam, potentially useful to some of you. imho.
> http://mlagen.sourceforge.net/
> i take no responsibility for whether it's reliable software; but it was
> flagged by the "Lockergnomies" today, usually not a bad referrer.
> (www.lockergnome.com).
>
> "MLA Auto-Generator is an incredible piece of free software that allows
you
> to quickly and effortlessly format your documents' works cited lists in
> complete accordance with the latest MLA or APA style guidelines. MLA
> Auto-Generator will automatically churn out a perfect bibliography entry,
> every time."
>
> etb
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:48:00 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (3)
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David Morris [mailto:fqmorris@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 12:19 PM
> > To: Jasper Fidget; 'The Whole Sick Crew'
> > Subject: RE: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (3)
> >
> >
> > --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Isn't it fairly safe to assume that the Foreword at least has not been
> > proofed? How else would something like "a loud amusement park" remain?
> >
> > K later corrects himself, saying that the noise was from some loud
toursts
> > or
> > campers (I forget). But he says he's just going to leave his initial
> > comment
> > as is, because he's not interested in being bothered with fixing it.
It's
> > a
> > bit strange, suggesting that the whole thing is comming out of K as if
it
> > were
> > a linear stream, which would be impossible seeing that he early on
points
> > the
> > reader to notes near the end. Its production would have to have been
> > recursive.
> >
> > DM
> >
> >
>
> Yes, exactly -- it seems contradictory. See p. 15: "(See my note to line
> 991)", and p. 17: "As mentioned, I think, in my last note to the poem",
both
> referring to the commentary as if it already exists, but then Note to
> 609-614 (p. 234-235): "diabolical radio music from what I thought was some
> kind of amusement park across the road -- it turned out to be camping
> tourists."
>
> It's like the entire thing has been put together out of order (Note to 991
> and Note to 1000 at least preceding the Foreword, but Note to 609-614
> occurring afterwards).
>
> A possible explanation is that it was actually written in discrete groups,
> and not according to the structure of the poem at all. The notes to 991
and
> 1000 take place in New Wye, as do all of the cross-references cascading
from
> C.991. The set of notes taking place in Zembla, and those discussing only
> the poem itself must have been next, and those notes concerning K's exile
in
> Utana must have been written last.
>
> ajaKasper
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:59:48 -0400
> From: The Great Quail <quail@libyrinth.com>
> Subject: NPPF -- Hogarth
>
> >> 13. Hogarthian (26)
> >
> > In the manner of William Hogarth, english illustrator and social
> > commentator.........Hogarth chronicled the lives of the 'hoi polloi' in
a
> > Breugelesque fashion....
>
> To add to this, Stravinsky's one opera, "The Rake's Progress," is based on
> Hogarth's illustrations. Composed in English from 1948-1951, the poet W.
H.
> Auden wrote the libretto. The opera is sort of an ironic mock-Mozart piece
> detailing a Faustian contract between one Tom Rakewell and the
> Mephistophelean Nick Shadow.
>
> Not that I think Nabokov really had this in mind, but I couldn't refrain
> from an opera mention, especially given: Russian ex-pat working in English
> with a poet over a character named Shadow....
>
> - --Quail
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:09:48 -0400
> From: The Great Quail <quail@libyrinth.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (1)
>
> Great job on the foreword, Jasper! Well done.
>
> > the odd and
> > inexplicable "your favorite"
>
> I find it to be a bit of anticipatory sarcasm, given K's later comments on
> that Canto....
>
> - --Quail
>
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:37:19 -0400
> From: <gumbo@fuse.net>
> Subject: Re: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (1)
>
> And the use of the second person? Who is the "you" being addressed?
>
> D.C.
>
>
> >
> > > the odd and
> > > inexplicable "your favorite"
> >
> > I find it to be a bit of anticipatory sarcasm, given K's later comments
on
> > that Canto....
> >
> > --Quail
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:16:10 -0400
> From: The Great Quail <quail@libyrinth.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (1)
>
> >>> the odd and
> >>> inexplicable "your favorite"
> >>
> >> I find it to be a bit of anticipatory sarcasm, given K's later comments
on
> >> that Canto....
>
> > And the use of the second person? Who is the "you" being addressed?
>
> The Gentle Reader of futurity....
>
> - --Q
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:19:45 -0400
> From: "cfalbert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: PF/Onegin/Kinbote
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> - ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C34A12.F9833C20
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> Anyone who hasn't already done so should should seek out a copy of =
> Nabokov's translation of Onegin...........just to see it and palm its =
> considerable heft........think a 5"X8" Manhattan white =
> pages.............
>
> Even if you don't know diddly about the poem, leaf through VOLUME II for =
> the commentaries - there is much there which informs Kinbote......
>
> The note starting on pg 182 will echo in PF, and offers a (likely =
> co-incidental) COL49 tendril......
>
> love,
> cfa
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:23:24 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF: Epigraph (not the pissing contest)
>
> - --- gumbo@fuse.net wrote:
> >
> > [Of which Kinbote writes] Too staid? Know too little? Had my poor friend
> precognized _who_ that would be, he would have been spared those
conjectures.
> As a matter of fact I had the pleasure and honor of witnessing (one March
> morning) the performance he describes in the next lines. [┘]
> >
> > Clearly suggesting that Kinbote did consider himself a Boswell to
Shade▓s
> Johnson.
>
> I'm sure K would loved to have Boswelled Shade's Johnson...
>
> DM
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:34:39 -0400
> From: "cfalbert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: PF/Borges
>
>
> and I also emphatically recommend reading Borges' "Pierre Menard, Author =
> of the Quixote" - only takes about 15 minutes.....
>
> Someone was kind enough to link to a full text version, but I can't seem =
> to find either the post or the link.....
>
> love,
> cfa
>
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Morris" <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> To: "James Kyllo" <jkyllo@clara.net>; <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 12:26 PM
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Notes (2)
>
>
> >
> > --- James Kyllo <jkyllo@clara.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > Similar to Kinbote's inability to mention his car (later boat) without
> > prefacing the word "powerful"
> > >
> > > >Page 22:
> > > >"powerful Kramler"
> >
> > Obviously following the cliche of auto as phallic symbol, from someone
who
> > hated Freud. For me the name sounds like "Rambler."
> >
> > http://www.amcrc.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3409
>