Subject
Fw: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3378: Pynchon-L list discussion of Pale
Fire #1
Fire #1
From
Date
Body
EDNOTE. Below is, I think, the first installment of the Pynchon-L list
discussion of Pale Fire. They are going thru it in sections.
----- Original Message -----
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 10:15 AM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3378
>
> pynchon-l-digest Monday, July 7 2003 Volume 02 : Number
3378
>
>
>
> Re: NPPF: anagrams
> Re: 1984 Foreword: Internet and social control
> Re: NPPF: anagrams
> Re: NPPF: anagrams
> RE: NPPF: anagrams
> NPPF - Preliminary - Title
> NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> NPPF - Preliminary - Dedication and Epigraph
> Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Title
> Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Title
> Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Dedication and Epigraph
> Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Title
> NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire & House of Leaves
> Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Title
> RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> Re: NPPF: anagrams
> RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire & House of Leaves
> Re: NPPF: anagrams
> RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> RE: NPPF: anagrams
> RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire & House of Leaves
> RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 06:20:46 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF: anagrams
>
> - --- Malignd <malignd@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > And the Kinbote/Botkin near-anagram is already alive within Pale Fire.
>
> But who is Botkin?
>
> DM
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 06:25:50 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Malignd <malignd@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF: anagrams
>
> <<But who is Botkin?>>
>
> I'm afraid you're actually going to need to read the
> novel.
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:43:20 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF: anagrams
>
> Botkin:
>
> "Kin bot" (Anglo Saxon): the price you paid to the family of the person
you
> murdered
>
> V.P. Botkin: 19th century critic and translator who published a famous
> translation of Shakespeare in 1880
>
> V.S. Botkin: A close friend of Nabokov's father and a leader of the Berlin
> Russians while the Nabokovs lived there
>
> See also Index, page 306 of _Pale Fire_. Note: both *bot* ("plop") and
> *boteliy* ("big-bellied") are actual words to be found in the Russian Dal
> (the Russian equivalent of the OED).
>
> See also text of _Pale Fire_: pp 100, 155, 220, 267
>
> akaMasperIidget
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > Behalf Of David Morris
> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 9:21 AM
> > To: Malignd; pynchon-l@waste.org
> > Subject: Re: NPPF: anagrams
> >
> >
> > --- Malignd <malignd@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > And the Kinbote/Botkin near-anagram is already alive within Pale Fire.
> >
> > But who is Botkin?
> >
> > DM
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> > http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:47:52 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: NPPF - Preliminary - Title
>
> As the text suggests (repeatedly), the title _Pale Fire_ may come from
> Shakespeare's _Timon of Athens_ 4:3, line 423:
>
> The sun's a thief, and with his great attraction
> Robs the vast sea; the moon's an arrant thief,
> And her pale fire she snatches from the sun;
> The sea's a thief, whose liquid surge resolves
> The moon into salt tears; the earth's a thief,
> That feeds and breeds by a composture stolen
> From general excrement, each thing's a thief;
> The laws, your curb and whip, in their rough power
> Have uncheck'd theft. Love not yourselves; away!
>
> Shade pulls the title from within the poem on line 962: "Help me, Will!
> _Pale Fire_", at the end of a verse enumerating his published works and
> implying that he has dispensed with the (perhaps peculiar) habit of
certain
> authors (for instance Faulkner) of adopting their titles from phrases in
> other author's works (usually Shakespeare). Note that Shade has quoted
from
> a passage denouncing thievery (making this a doubly odd or at least ironic
> choice...). Furthermore, Nabokov loudly criticized Scott Moncrieff's
> translation of Proust's _A la Recherche du Temps Perdu_, not least because
> of the translator's unaccountable adoption of phrases from Shakespeare for
> use as titles, making Nabokov's choice for his novel certainly a peculiar
> one.
>
> Interestingly, recent evidence suggests that portions of _Timon of
Athens_,
> mainly most of Act III, were *not* written by Shakespeare but rather by
> Christopher Middleton. The phrase "pale fire" remains attributed to
> Shakespeare, however.
>
> Like Gradus, the title of the poem/work emerges from the commentary
> gradually. See page 80 where Kinbote quotes this passage from Shakespeare
> as a reverse translation from Zemblan, transposing the genders and
swapping
> "pale fire" for "silvery light". See also page 285 where Kinbote is
unable
> to find the origin to the title of the poem since his Zemblan edition of
> _Timon of Athens_ "certainly contains nothing that could be regarded as an
> equivalent of 'pale fire'". See also page 81 where Kinbote comes
> tantalizingly close to uttering the title with "pale and diaphanous final
> phase". See page 15 in the Foreword where Kinbote uses the title
> descriptively: "the pale fire of the incinerator".
>
> The title may also be found in Yeats' "A Poet to His Beloved" (as I
believe
> someone has pointed out):
>
> I BRING you with reverent hands
> The books of my numberless dreams;
> White woman that passion has worn
> As the tide wears the dove-gray sands,
> And with heart more old than the horn
> That is brimmed from the pale fire of time:
> White woman with numberless dreams
> I bring you my passionate rhyme.
>
> Arguably, the theme of this poem has something in common with Shade's.
>
>
> akaJasperFidget
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:47:51 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
>
> _Pale Fire_ was written 1960-1961, published 1962 by Putnam, a second
> edition 1966 by Lancer, reprinted 1980 by Perigee. Nabokov moved to
> Switzerland in 1961 (where he lived out the remainder of his life), so
this
> was his last work created in America. It was his 14th novel, the 5th in
> English (after _The Real Life of Sebastian Knight_ [1941], _Bend Sinister_
> [1947], _Lolita_ [1955], and _Pnin_ [1957]).
>
> _Pale Fire_ is an "involuted" (or "self-reflexive") novel -- a novel that
> contains the details concerning its own origin or composition. An
> antecedent is Andre Gide's _The Counterfeiters_ (1926) which is a diary
kept
> by a novelist about a work-in-progress called _The Counterfeiters_
(followed
> in the same year by Gide's _Journal of The Counterfeiters_, the journal
he'd
> kept while writing the novel _The Counterfeiters_). There's at least one
> reference to Gide in _Pale Fire_. Another example of an involuted novel:
> Raymond Queneau's _Les Enfants du Limon_ (1938). Anyone got more?
>
> _Pale Fire_ is a fictional academic work -- a work of mock scholarship.
> Some of Borges' stories come to mind. There must be others...?
>
> And it is a work that contains another work: this makes one think of
> Elizabethan drama, especially _Hamlet_.
>
> An antecedent for the fabula of _Pale Fire_ may be found in Gogol's "Diary
> of a Madman" (1834), a narrative by a man who believes he is the King of
> Spain and fails to realize that nobody else shares his delusions. This
> opens another interpretive possibility: that Kinbote, like Gogol's
> Poprishchin, suffers from schizophrenia:
> http://bmj.com/cgi/content/full/323/7327/1475
>
> Structurally, _Pale Fire_ probably evolved from VN's experience
translating
> Alexander Pushkin's _Eugene Onegin_ (1823-31), which contains a preface by
> Nabokov, the translated poem, a large commentary, and finally an index
> (supplied by VN's son Dmitri), all in proportions similar to those found
in
> _Pale Fire_ (although around four times the size).
>
> But PF has more than a passing similarity to other long poems, and these
> have their own relation to the text:
>
> - -=T.S. Eliot's "Four Quartets"=-
> http://www.tristan.icom43.net/quartets/
>
> The first five lines of which may seem particularly relevant:
>
> "Time present and time past
> Are both perhaps present in time future,
> And time future contained in time past.
> If all time is eternally present
> All time is unredeemable."
>
> Shade even seems to adopt Eliot's style of indentation for certain verses
> (someone with better poetry voodoo might explain their purpose, although I
> recall being told it has to do with attempting to guide or ease the
reader's
> eye through transitions).
>
> - -=Alexander Pope's "The Dunciad"=-
> http://eir.library.utoronto.ca/rpo/display/poem1628.html
> http://www.blackmask.com/cgi-bin/links/jump.cgi?ID=b6685
>
> A poem in four "books" containing a preface, the poem, a commentary, and
> notes, all composed by the author. Note that John Shade is a Pope scholar
> and a specialist in 18th century literature.
>
> - -=Lord Byron's "Childe Harold's Pilgrimage"=-
> http://www.photoaspects.com/chesil/byron/childe1.html
>
> Consists of a Preface and four cantos. From the Preface: "A fictitious
> character is introduced for the sake of giving some connexion to the
piece;
> which, however, makes no pretension to regularity."
>
> Not that I'm trying to argue any particular point of view here.... Byron
> (arguably) also shows up _Pale Fire_.
>
> - --There's also Pound's Cantos but I'm not sure VN thought much of Pound
> (although he didn't seem to like Eliot all that much either).
>
> - --And of course Dante wrote in Cantos: http://www.bartleby.com/20/
> Shade has a bust of Dante on his bookshelf.
>
> akaJasperFidget
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:47:53 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: NPPF - Preliminary - Dedication and Epigraph
>
> The Dedication: "To Vera"
>
> All of VN's work is dedicated to his wife. In this particular case, given
> the novel's attention to Shade's relationship with Sybil (reading the poem
> to her, addressing her from within it), "To Vera" has been linked to "To
> Sybil" as evidence toward a particular interpretation of authorship (the
> so-called "Shadean" reading -- for a discussion of the Shadean reading as
> well as other theories see Boyd's article here:
>
> http://www.libraries.psu.edu/iasweb/nabokov/boydonmc.htm
>
> - -- would it be useful post a brief list of the existing authorship
> theories...?).
>
> The Epigraph:
>
> "This reminds me of the ludicrous account[...]"
>
> There is a paragraph preceding the one quoted that introduces Hodge in
_Life
> of Samuel Johnson_; this is the larger quote:
>
> "I never shall forget the indulgence with which he treated Hodge, his cat:
> for whom he himself used to go out and buy oysters, lest the servants
having
> that trouble should take a dislike to the poor creature. I am, unluckily,
> one of those who have an antipathy to a cat, so that I am uneasy when in
the
> room with one; and I own, I frequently suffered a good deal from the
> presence of this same Hodge. I recollect him one day scrambling up Dr.
> Johnson's breast, apparently with much satisfaction, while my friend
smiling
> and half-whistling, rubbed down his back, and pulled him by the tail; and
> when I observed he was a fine cat, saying, 'Why yes, Sir, but I have had
> cats whom I liked better than this;' and then as if perceiving Hodge to be
> out of countenance, adding, 'but he is a very fine cat, a very fine cat
> indeed.'
>
> This reminds me of the ludicrous account which he gave Mr. Langton, of the
> despicable state of a young Gentleman of good family. 'Sir, when I heard
of
> him last, he was running about town shooting cats.' And then in a sort of
> kindly reverie, he bethought himself of his own favourite cat, and said,
> 'But Hodge shan't be shot; no, no, Hodge shall not be shot.'" (_Life of
> Johnson_, Chapter 41)
>
> I will delay sponsoring any theories for the time being, but:
>
> Perhaps most importantly, this is described by Boswell as a "ludicrous
> account".
>
> Kinbote would have himself a sort of Boswell for Shade (among other
things),
> and the image of "a young gentleman of good family [...] running about
town
> shooting" summons to mind another of PF's characters, but if we are to
make
> substitutions, then which (or who) is Johnson's favorite cat? And why?
>
> Kinbote shan't be shot; no, no, Kinbote shall not be shot? Shade shan't
be
> shot: no, no, Shade shall not be shot? Goldsworth shall not be... and so
> on.
>
> On page 112 Kinbote says, "some cats are less repugnant than others to the
> good-natured dog told to endure the bitter effluvium of an alien genus".
> The context is of Kinbote's brief time spent in the company of Fleur de
> Fyler, whose repeated attempts to seduce him (Fleur de Fyler -> flower
> defiler -> de-virginizer) are met with annoyance or indifference (Kinbote
is
> homosexual).
>
> Incidentally, there is what appears to be a typo in this quote as it
appears
> in _Pale Fire_, namely the colon in the last sentence "But Hodge shan't be
> shot: no" appears as a semicolon in Boswell's work (in all the sources at
my
> disposal anyway, none of which have been translated from Zemblan).
>
> Boswell's _Life of Samuel Johnson_:
> http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/b/b74l/
> http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/gutbook/lookup?num=1564
>
>
> akaJasperFidget
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 07 Jul 2003 10:32:21 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Title
>
> On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 09:47, Jasper Fidget wrote:
> > As the text suggests (repeatedly), the title _Pale Fire_ may come from
> > Shakespeare's _Timon of Athens_ 4:3, line 423:
> >
> > The sun's a thief, and with his great attraction
> > Robs the vast sea; the moon's an arrant thief,
> > And her pale fire she snatches from the sun;
> > The sea's a thief, whose liquid surge resolves
> > The moon into salt tears; the earth's a thief,
> > That feeds and breeds by a composture stolen
> > >From general excrement, each thing's a thief;
> > The laws, your curb and whip, in their rough power
> > Have uncheck'd theft. Love not yourselves; away!
> >
> > Shade pulls the title from within the poem on line 962: "Help me, Will!
> > _Pale Fire_", at the end of a verse enumerating his published works and
> > implying that he has dispensed with the (perhaps peculiar) habit of
certain
> > authors (for instance Faulkner) of adopting their titles from phrases in
> > other author's works (usually Shakespeare). Note that Shade has quoted
from
> > a passage denouncing thievery (making this a doubly odd or at least
ironic
> > choice...). Furthermore, Nabokov loudly criticized Scott Moncrieff's
> > translation of Proust's _A la Recherche du Temps Perdu_, not least
because
> > of the translator's unaccountable adoption of phrases from Shakespeare
for
> > use as titles, making Nabokov's choice for his novel certainly a
peculiar
> > one.
>
>
> To tie things into Pynchon at the earlier opportunity, Kinbote
> criticizes Slade for using another writer's words for the title of his
> (Slade's) collection of essays The Untamed Seahorse
>
> P.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 07 Jul 2003 10:45:40 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Title
>
> On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 10:32, Paul Mackin wrote:
> > On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 09:47, Jasper Fidget wrote:
> > > As the text suggests (repeatedly), the title _Pale Fire_ may come from
> > > Shakespeare's _Timon of Athens_ 4:3, line 423:
> > >
> > > The sun's a thief, and with his great attraction
> > > Robs the vast sea; the moon's an arrant thief,
> > > And her pale fire she snatches from the sun;
> > > The sea's a thief, whose liquid surge resolves
> > > The moon into salt tears; the earth's a thief,
> > > That feeds and breeds by a composture stolen
> > > >From general excrement, each thing's a thief;
> > > The laws, your curb and whip, in their rough power
> > > Have uncheck'd theft. Love not yourselves; away!
> > >
> > > Shade pulls the title from within the poem on line 962: "Help me,
Will!
> > > _Pale Fire_", at the end of a verse enumerating his published works
and
> > > implying that he has dispensed with the (perhaps peculiar) habit of
certain
> > > authors (for instance Faulkner) of adopting their titles from phrases
in
> > > other author's works (usually Shakespeare). Note that Shade has
quoted from
> > > a passage denouncing thievery (making this a doubly odd or at least
ironic
> > > choice...). Furthermore, Nabokov loudly criticized Scott Moncrieff's
> > > translation of Proust's _A la Recherche du Temps Perdu_, not least
because
> > > of the translator's unaccountable adoption of phrases from Shakespeare
for
> > > use as titles, making Nabokov's choice for his novel certainly a
peculiar
> > > one.
> >
> >
> > To tie things into Pynchon at the earlier opportunity, Kinbote
> > criticizes Slade for using another writer's words for the title of his
> > (Slade's) collection of essays The Untamed Seahorse
> >
> > P.
> >
>
>
> The work is Browning's My Last Duchess, not Pynchon's Mason & Dixon.
> Just to make things perfectly clear.
>
> And the name is Shade, not Slade.
>
> P.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 07 Jul 2003 11:03:23 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Dedication and Epigraph
>
> On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 09:47, Jasper Fidget wrote:
> > The Dedication: "To Vera"
> >
> > All of VN's work is dedicated to his wife. In this particular case,
given
> > the novel's attention to Shade's relationship with Sybil (reading the
poem
> > to her, addressing her from within it), "To Vera" has been linked to "To
> > Sybil" as evidence toward a particular interpretation of authorship (the
> > so-called "Shadean" reading -- for a discussion of the Shadean reading
as
> > well as other theories see Boyd's article here:
>
>
>
> The dedication to Vera resonates with still another theory of
> authorship. She announced to the world her husband's interest in the
> otherworldly.
>
> P.
> >
> > http://www.libraries.psu.edu/iasweb/nabokov/boydonmc.htm
> >
> > -- would it be useful post a brief list of the existing authorship
> > theories...?).
> >
> > The Epigraph:
> >
> > "This reminds me of the ludicrous account[...]"
> >
> > There is a paragraph preceding the one quoted that introduces Hodge in
_Life
> > of Samuel Johnson_; this is the larger quote:
> >
> > "I never shall forget the indulgence with which he treated Hodge, his
cat:
> > for whom he himself used to go out and buy oysters, lest the servants
having
> > that trouble should take a dislike to the poor creature. I am,
unluckily,
> > one of those who have an antipathy to a cat, so that I am uneasy when in
the
> > room with one; and I own, I frequently suffered a good deal from the
> > presence of this same Hodge. I recollect him one day scrambling up Dr.
> > Johnson's breast, apparently with much satisfaction, while my friend
smiling
> > and half-whistling, rubbed down his back, and pulled him by the tail;
and
> > when I observed he was a fine cat, saying, 'Why yes, Sir, but I have had
> > cats whom I liked better than this;' and then as if perceiving Hodge to
be
> > out of countenance, adding, 'but he is a very fine cat, a very fine cat
> > indeed.'
> >
> > This reminds me of the ludicrous account which he gave Mr. Langton, of
the
> > despicable state of a young Gentleman of good family. 'Sir, when I
heard of
> > him last, he was running about town shooting cats.' And then in a sort
of
> > kindly reverie, he bethought himself of his own favourite cat, and said,
> > 'But Hodge shan't be shot; no, no, Hodge shall not be shot.'" (_Life of
> > Johnson_, Chapter 41)
> >
> > I will delay sponsoring any theories for the time being, but:
> >
> > Perhaps most importantly, this is described by Boswell as a "ludicrous
> > account".
> >
> > Kinbote would have himself a sort of Boswell for Shade (among other
things),
> > and the image of "a young gentleman of good family [...] running about
town
> > shooting" summons to mind another of PF's characters, but if we are to
make
> > substitutions, then which (or who) is Johnson's favorite cat? And why?
> >
> > Kinbote shan't be shot; no, no, Kinbote shall not be shot? Shade shan't
be
> > shot: no, no, Shade shall not be shot? Goldsworth shall not be... and
so
> > on.
> >
> > On page 112 Kinbote says, "some cats are less repugnant than others to
the
> > good-natured dog told to endure the bitter effluvium of an alien genus".
> > The context is of Kinbote's brief time spent in the company of Fleur de
> > Fyler, whose repeated attempts to seduce him (Fleur de Fyler -> flower
> > defiler -> de-virginizer) are met with annoyance or indifference
(Kinbote is
> > homosexual).
> >
> > Incidentally, there is what appears to be a typo in this quote as it app
ears
> > in _Pale Fire_, namely the colon in the last sentence "But Hodge shan't
be
> > shot: no" appears as a semicolon in Boswell's work (in all the sources
at my
> > disposal anyway, none of which have been translated from Zemblan).
> >
> > Boswell's _Life of Samuel Johnson_:
> > http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/b/b74l/
> > http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/gutbook/lookup?num=1564
> >
> >
> > akaJasperFidget
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:03:07 EDT
> From: Elainemmbell@aol.com
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
>
> - --part1_bb.333f89cc.2c3ae5ab_boundary
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> In a message dated 7/7/2003 9:47:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> jasper@hatguild.org writes:
>
> > (someone with better poetry voodoo might explain their purpose, although
I
> > recall being told it has to do with attempting to guide or ease the
reader's
> > eye through transitions)
>
> Punctuation and indentation decisions in poetry do function as Jasper
> suggests but also provide the musical timing and cadence of the work. For
instance,
> in Canto One, lines 22-24:
>
> "Reading from left to right in winter's code:
> A dot, an arrow pointing back; repeat:
> Dot, arrow pointing back...A pheasant's feet!"
>
> You can "hear" the stop at :, the quarter-stop at , and the half-stop at:
> followed by the rhythmic stop at the second: then the actual repeat picks
up the
> implied rhythm only to trip into the kind of trill implied by the ellipsis
> rounding up to the double stop at the final !
>
> Whereas in lines 245-246 of Canto Two use the indentation rhythm to make
the
> line "Lafontaine was wrong:" the equivalent in beats as the apparently
longer
> next line:
> "Dead is the mandible, alive the song." The combination of a long opening
> indent plus a colon stop stretches the line with fewer syllables into the
same
> time signature as the longer line.
>
> In my conjure woman's humble interpretation, that is.
> Elaine M.M. Bell, Writer
> (860) 523-9225
>
> - --part1_bb.333f89cc.2c3ae5ab_boundary
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"
FACE=
> =3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 7/7/2003 9:47:49 AM Eastern
Dayligh=
> t Time, jasper@hatguild.org writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid;
MARGIN-LEFT=
> : 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">(someone with better poetry
voo=
> doo might explain their purpose, although I<BR>
> recall being told it has to do with attempting to guide or ease the
reader's=
> <BR>
> eye through transitions)</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
> <BR>
> Punctuation and indentation decisions in poetry do function as Jasper
sugges=
> ts but also provide the musical timing and cadence of the work. For
in=
> stance, in Canto One, lines 22-24:<BR>
> <BR>
> "Reading from left to right in winter's code: <BR>
> A dot, an arrow pointing back; repeat:<BR>
> Dot, arrow pointing back...A pheasant's feet!"<BR>
> <BR>
> You can "hear" the stop at :, the quarter-stop at , and the half-stop at:
fo=
> llowed by the rhythmic stop at the second: then the actual repeat
pick=
> s up the implied rhythm only to trip into the kind of trill implied by the
e=
> llipsis rounding up to the double stop at the final !<BR>
> <BR>
> Whereas in lines 245-246 of Canto Two use the indentation rhythm to make
the=
> line "Lafontaine was wrong:" the equivalent in beats as the apparently
long=
> er next line:<BR>
> "Dead is the mandible, alive the song." The combination of a long
open=
> ing indent plus a colon stop stretches the line with fewer syllables into
th=
> e same time signature as the longer line.<BR>
> <BR>
> In my conjure woman's humble interpretation, that is.<BR>
> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#008080" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
SIZE=3D2=
> FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Verdana" LANG=3D"0">Elaine M.M. Bell,
Writer<B=
> R>
> (860) 523-9225</FONT></HTML>
>
> - --part1_bb.333f89cc.2c3ae5ab_boundary--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:12:08 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Malignd <malignd@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Title
>
> <<Furthermore, Nabokov loudly criticized Scott
> Moncrieff's translation of Proust's _A la Recherche du
> Temps Perdu_, not least because of the translator's
> unaccountable adoption of phrases from Shakespeare for
> use as titles, making Nabokov's choice for his novel
> certainly a peculiar one.>>
>
> "Peculiar"? Given the themes of the novel, it's an
> entirely appropriate--I'd say perfect--title.
>
> However, as a title chosen by Shade for his poem, it
> provides a small hint (perhaps), as to how Nabokov
> views the poet he's created and, as we get further
> into the novel, this opens further doors into the
> endlessly mirroring discussion of internal authorship.
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 12:05:37 -0400
> From: The Great Quail <quail@libyrinth.com>
> Subject: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire & House of Leaves
>
> Jasper writes,
>
> > _Pale Fire_ is an "involuted" (or "self-reflexive") novel -- a novel
that
> > contains the details concerning its own origin or composition. Anyone
got
> more?
> > _Pale Fire_ is a fictional academic work -- a work of mock scholarship.
> > Some of Borges' stories come to mind. There must be others...?
> > And it is a work that contains another work: this makes one think of
> > Elizabethan drama, especially _Hamlet_.
>
> There's actually a very recent novel that meets all these criteria: Mark
Z.
> Danielewski's "House of Leaves."
>
> Clearly inspired in part by "Pale Fire," the book passes itself off as a
> genuine set of annotations by one Johnny Truant, who has organized and
> annotated the unpublished book, "House of Leaves," written by a
Borges-like
> figure named Zampano. The subject of Zampano's book is actually a film
> called "The Navidson Record," about a house that is bigger inside than it
is
> outside.
>
> The actual novel "House of Leaves" is therefore a series of nested
stories,
> narratives, and annotations.
>
> http://www.houseofleaves.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi
>
> http://www.themodernword.com/review_house_of_leaves.html
>
> - --Quail
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 07 Jul 2003 12:07:48 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
>
> On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 09:47, Jasper Fidget wrote:
> >
> >
> > _Pale Fire_ is an "involuted" (or "self-reflexive") novel -- a novel
that
> > contains the details concerning its own origin or composition. An
> > antecedent is Andre Gide's _The Counterfeiters_ (1926) which is a diary
kept
> > by a novelist about a work-in-progress called _The Counterfeiters_
(followed
> > in the same year by Gide's _Journal of The Counterfeiters_, the journal
he'd
> > kept while writing the novel _The Counterfeiters_). There's at least
one
> > reference to Gide in _Pale Fire_. Another example of an involuted
novel:
> > Raymond Queneau's _Les Enfants du Limon_ (1938). Anyone got more?
>
> Strange word involuted. Shade uses involute in Canto Three.
>
> No sound,/No furtive light came from their involute/Abode,
>
> Isn't A la recherche du temps perdu a reflexive novel
>
>
>
>
> P.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:22:32 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Malignd <malignd@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
>
> <<Anyone got more?>>
>
> If On A Winter's Night A Traveler, by Italo Calvino.
>
> One Hundred Years of Solitude ends with an involution,
> as the reader and the last living Buendia realize each
> is reading a translation of Melquaides's journal and
> that this last living Buendia will die when he
> finishes the journal, at the very moment the reader
> finishes 100 Years of Solitude.
>
> John Barth's Lost in the Funhouse, a collection of
> stories, is a primer on involution.
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:37:50 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
>
> So lyrically I guess it's a strong poem then? But is "Pale Fire" a *good*
> poem? Does it really merit a book-length commentary and index? Is John
> Shade a *good* poet, or is he, as Kernan writes, "the belated writer who
has
> no authentic voice of his own but merely echoes earlier stronger writers"?
> (Alvin B. Kernan, "Reading Zemblan: The Audience Disappears in _Pale
> Fire_").
>
> akaJasperFidget
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Elainemmbell@aol.com [mailto:Elainemmbell@aol.com]
> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 11:03 AM
> > To: jasper@hatguild.org; pynchon-l@waste.org
> > Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> >
> > In a message dated 7/7/2003 9:47:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > jasper@hatguild.org writes:
> >
> >
> >
> > (someone with better poetry voodoo might explain their purpose,
> > although I
> > recall being told it has to do with attempting to guide or ease the
> > reader's
> > eye through transitions)
> >
> >
> >
> > Punctuation and indentation decisions in poetry do function as Jasper
> > suggests but also provide the musical timing and cadence of the work.
For
> > instance, in Canto One, lines 22-24:
> >
> > "Reading from left to right in winter's code:
> > A dot, an arrow pointing back; repeat:
> > Dot, arrow pointing back...A pheasant's feet!"
> >
> > You can "hear" the stop at :, the quarter-stop at , and the half-stop
at:
> > followed by the rhythmic stop at the second: then the actual repeat
picks
> > up the implied rhythm only to trip into the kind of trill implied by the
> > ellipsis rounding up to the double stop at the final !
> >
> > Whereas in lines 245-246 of Canto Two use the indentation rhythm to make
> > the line "Lafontaine was wrong:" the equivalent in beats as the
apparently
> > longer next line:
> > "Dead is the mandible, alive the song." The combination of a long
opening
> > indent plus a colon stop stretches the line with fewer syllables into
the
> > same time signature as the longer line.
> >
> > In my conjure woman's humble interpretation, that is.
> > Elaine M.M. Bell, Writer
> > (860) 523-9225
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:38:05 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Title
>
> Agreed. I should have said "noteworthy" instead of "peculiar"; certainly
> worth looking into.
>
> akaJasperFidget
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > Behalf Of Malignd
> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 11:12 AM
> > To: pynchon-l@waste.org
> > Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Title
> >
> > <<Furthermore, Nabokov loudly criticized Scott
> > Moncrieff's translation of Proust's _A la Recherche du
> > Temps Perdu_, not least because of the translator's
> > unaccountable adoption of phrases from Shakespeare for
> > use as titles, making Nabokov's choice for his novel
> > certainly a peculiar one.>>
> >
> > "Peculiar"? Given the themes of the novel, it's an
> > entirely appropriate--I'd say perfect--title.
> >
> > However, as a title chosen by Shade for his poem, it
> > provides a small hint (perhaps), as to how Nabokov
> > views the poet he's created and, as we get further
> > into the novel, this opens further doors into the
> > endlessly mirroring discussion of internal authorship.
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> > http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:40:22 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
>
> Does Marcel ever get to the point where he writes it? Can't remember. I
> suppose the definition might be extended to include all Kunstlerroman.
> (Interesting angle: _Pale Fire_ as Kunstlerroman.... -- a bit of a stretch
> certainly.)
>
> See 162 for Kinbote's rant on Proust.
>
> akaJasperFidget
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > Behalf Of Paul Mackin
> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 12:08 PM
> > To: pynchon-l@waste.org
> > Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> >
> > On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 09:47, Jasper Fidget wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > _Pale Fire_ is an "involuted" (or "self-reflexive") novel -- a novel
> > that
> > > contains the details concerning its own origin or composition. An
> > > antecedent is Andre Gide's _The Counterfeiters_ (1926) which is a
diary
> > kept
> > > by a novelist about a work-in-progress called _The Counterfeiters_
> > (followed
> > > in the same year by Gide's _Journal of The Counterfeiters_, the
journal
> > he'd
> > > kept while writing the novel _The Counterfeiters_). There's at least
> > one
> > > reference to Gide in _Pale Fire_. Another example of an involuted
> > novel:
> > > Raymond Queneau's _Les Enfants du Limon_ (1938). Anyone got more?
> >
> > Strange word involuted. Shade uses involute in Canto Three.
> >
> > No sound,/No furtive light came from their involute/Abode,
> >
> > Isn't A la recherche du temps perdu a reflexive novel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > P.
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 07 Jul 2003 12:42:38 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF: anagrams
>
> On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 09:20, David Morris wrote:
> >
> > --- Malignd <malignd@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > And the Kinbote/Botkin near-anagram is already alive within Pale Fire.
> >
> > But who is Botkin?
> >
>
> We may never know. But I do honestly believe that the first and
> immediate association many readers of Pale Fire will have is
>
> When he himself might his quietus make/ With a bare bodkin . .
>
> Hamlet Act 3, Scene 1
>
> That was my experience anyway.
>
> Not necessarily anything logical about an association.
>
> Incidentally there's another place in Shakespeare where the words 'pale'
> and 'fire' occur in the same line. (I read somewhere)
>
> P.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:49:01 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire & House of Leaves
>
> I tried this book a couple of years ago (based in part on your enthusiasm
> for it), and while I liked its ideas and structure, I thought the writing
> seemed a bit immature. I seem to recall it also gave birth to a song (or
a
> whole album) by his sister...? I wonder if there's also an actual film
> somewhere....
>
> Jspr Fdgt
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > Behalf Of The Great Quail
> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 12:06 PM
> > To: The Whole Sick Crew
> > Subject: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire & House of Leaves
> >
> > Jasper writes,
> >
> > > _Pale Fire_ is an "involuted" (or "self-reflexive") novel -- a novel
> > that
> > > contains the details concerning its own origin or composition. Anyone
> > got
> > more?
> > > _Pale Fire_ is a fictional academic work -- a work of mock
scholarship.
> > > Some of Borges' stories come to mind. There must be others...?
> > > And it is a work that contains another work: this makes one think of
> > > Elizabethan drama, especially _Hamlet_.
> >
> > There's actually a very recent novel that meets all these criteria: Mark
> > Z.
> > Danielewski's "House of Leaves."
> >
> > Clearly inspired in part by "Pale Fire," the book passes itself off as a
> > genuine set of annotations by one Johnny Truant, who has organized and
> > annotated the unpublished book, "House of Leaves," written by a Borges-
> > like
> > figure named Zampano. The subject of Zampano's book is actually a film
> > called "The Navidson Record," about a house that is bigger inside than
it
> > is
> > outside.
> >
> > The actual novel "House of Leaves" is therefore a series of nested
> > stories,
> > narratives, and annotations.
> >
> > http://www.houseofleaves.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi
> >
> > http://www.themodernword.com/review_house_of_leaves.html
> >
> > --Quail
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:51:21 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF: anagrams
>
> - --- Malignd <malignd@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > <<But who is Botkin?>>
> > I'm afraid you're actually going to need to read the novel.
>
> Well, er, I have. And I only vaguely remember the name being brought up
in the
> commentary, and I didn't take notes the first time through. But I'm on my
> second read now, at Canto Four, with a growing pile of notes (I enjoyed
the
> poem better the second time). So I'll get back to Botkin soon...
>
> DM
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:05:26 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Malignd <malignd@yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
>
> <<So lyrically I guess it's a strong poem then? But
> is "Pale Fire" a *good* poem? Does it really merit a
> book-length commentary and index? Is John
> Shade a *good* poet, or is he, as Kernan writes, "the
> belated writer who has no authentic voice of his own
> but merely echoes earlier stronger writers"?
> (Alvin B. Kernan, "Reading Zemblan: The Audience
> Disappears in _Pale Fire_").>>
>
> This question is at the crux of much that will be of
> interest as we push deeper and deeper into the novel.
> Perhaps too rich a question for so early in the game.
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:07:20 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: NPPF: anagrams
>
> - --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> >
> > See also Index, page 306 of _Pale Fire_. Note: both *bot* ("plop") and
> *boteliy* ("big-bellied") are actual words to be found in the Russian Dal
(the
> Russian equivalent of the OED).
> >
> > See also text of _Pale Fire_: pp 100, 155, 220, 267
>
> Thanks. This is very helpful. Also, I hadn't waded through the index,
but I
> suppose I should...
>
> David Morris
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:08:50 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Malignd <malignd@yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire & House of Leaves
>
> <<I tried this book a couple of years ago (based in
> part on your enthusiasm for it), and while I liked its
> ideas and structure, I thought the writing seemed a
> bit immature. >>
>
> I agree in part. Some of the writing was quite good,
> but the Johnny Truant sections were laborious and
> uninspired.
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 07 Jul 2003 13:15:17 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
>
> On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 12:40, Jasper Fidget wrote:
> > Does Marcel ever get to the point where he writes it? Can't remember.
>
> He just gets to that point ("Is there still time?" "Am I well enough?"
>
> But the book we've just read is the book to be written.
>
> It's a circle.
>
> Perhaps it could be called recursive. As if the novel were computed from
> itself.
>
>
>
> P.
>
>
>
>
> I
> > suppose the definition might be extended to include all Kunstlerroman.
> > (Interesting angle: _Pale Fire_ as Kunstlerroman.... -- a bit of a
stretch
> > certainly.)
> >
> > See 162 for Kinbote's rant on Proust.
> >
> > akaJasperFidget
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > > Behalf Of Paul Mackin
> > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 12:08 PM
> > > To: pynchon-l@waste.org
> > > Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> > >
> > > On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 09:47, Jasper Fidget wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _Pale Fire_ is an "involuted" (or "self-reflexive") novel -- a novel
> > > that
> > > > contains the details concerning its own origin or composition. An
> > > > antecedent is Andre Gide's _The Counterfeiters_ (1926) which is a
diary
> > > kept
> > > > by a novelist about a work-in-progress called _The Counterfeiters_
> > > (followed
> > > > in the same year by Gide's _Journal of The Counterfeiters_, the
journal
> > > he'd
> > > > kept while writing the novel _The Counterfeiters_). There's at
least
> > > one
> > > > reference to Gide in _Pale Fire_. Another example of an involuted
> > > novel:
> > > > Raymond Queneau's _Les Enfants du Limon_ (1938). Anyone got more?
> > >
> > > Strange word involuted. Shade uses involute in Canto Three.
> > >
> > > No sound,/No furtive light came from their involute/Abode,
> > >
> > > Isn't A la recherche du temps perdu a reflexive novel
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > P.
> > >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3378
> ********************************
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to waste@waste.org
> with "unsubscribe pynchon-l-digest" in the message body.
discussion of Pale Fire. They are going thru it in sections.
----- Original Message -----
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 10:15 AM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3378
>
> pynchon-l-digest Monday, July 7 2003 Volume 02 : Number
3378
>
>
>
> Re: NPPF: anagrams
> Re: 1984 Foreword: Internet and social control
> Re: NPPF: anagrams
> Re: NPPF: anagrams
> RE: NPPF: anagrams
> NPPF - Preliminary - Title
> NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> NPPF - Preliminary - Dedication and Epigraph
> Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Title
> Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Title
> Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Dedication and Epigraph
> Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Title
> NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire & House of Leaves
> Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Title
> RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> Re: NPPF: anagrams
> RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire & House of Leaves
> Re: NPPF: anagrams
> RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> RE: NPPF: anagrams
> RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire & House of Leaves
> RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 06:20:46 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF: anagrams
>
> - --- Malignd <malignd@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > And the Kinbote/Botkin near-anagram is already alive within Pale Fire.
>
> But who is Botkin?
>
> DM
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 06:25:50 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Malignd <malignd@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF: anagrams
>
> <<But who is Botkin?>>
>
> I'm afraid you're actually going to need to read the
> novel.
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:43:20 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF: anagrams
>
> Botkin:
>
> "Kin bot" (Anglo Saxon): the price you paid to the family of the person
you
> murdered
>
> V.P. Botkin: 19th century critic and translator who published a famous
> translation of Shakespeare in 1880
>
> V.S. Botkin: A close friend of Nabokov's father and a leader of the Berlin
> Russians while the Nabokovs lived there
>
> See also Index, page 306 of _Pale Fire_. Note: both *bot* ("plop") and
> *boteliy* ("big-bellied") are actual words to be found in the Russian Dal
> (the Russian equivalent of the OED).
>
> See also text of _Pale Fire_: pp 100, 155, 220, 267
>
> akaMasperIidget
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > Behalf Of David Morris
> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 9:21 AM
> > To: Malignd; pynchon-l@waste.org
> > Subject: Re: NPPF: anagrams
> >
> >
> > --- Malignd <malignd@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > And the Kinbote/Botkin near-anagram is already alive within Pale Fire.
> >
> > But who is Botkin?
> >
> > DM
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> > http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:47:52 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: NPPF - Preliminary - Title
>
> As the text suggests (repeatedly), the title _Pale Fire_ may come from
> Shakespeare's _Timon of Athens_ 4:3, line 423:
>
> The sun's a thief, and with his great attraction
> Robs the vast sea; the moon's an arrant thief,
> And her pale fire she snatches from the sun;
> The sea's a thief, whose liquid surge resolves
> The moon into salt tears; the earth's a thief,
> That feeds and breeds by a composture stolen
> From general excrement, each thing's a thief;
> The laws, your curb and whip, in their rough power
> Have uncheck'd theft. Love not yourselves; away!
>
> Shade pulls the title from within the poem on line 962: "Help me, Will!
> _Pale Fire_", at the end of a verse enumerating his published works and
> implying that he has dispensed with the (perhaps peculiar) habit of
certain
> authors (for instance Faulkner) of adopting their titles from phrases in
> other author's works (usually Shakespeare). Note that Shade has quoted
from
> a passage denouncing thievery (making this a doubly odd or at least ironic
> choice...). Furthermore, Nabokov loudly criticized Scott Moncrieff's
> translation of Proust's _A la Recherche du Temps Perdu_, not least because
> of the translator's unaccountable adoption of phrases from Shakespeare for
> use as titles, making Nabokov's choice for his novel certainly a peculiar
> one.
>
> Interestingly, recent evidence suggests that portions of _Timon of
Athens_,
> mainly most of Act III, were *not* written by Shakespeare but rather by
> Christopher Middleton. The phrase "pale fire" remains attributed to
> Shakespeare, however.
>
> Like Gradus, the title of the poem/work emerges from the commentary
> gradually. See page 80 where Kinbote quotes this passage from Shakespeare
> as a reverse translation from Zemblan, transposing the genders and
swapping
> "pale fire" for "silvery light". See also page 285 where Kinbote is
unable
> to find the origin to the title of the poem since his Zemblan edition of
> _Timon of Athens_ "certainly contains nothing that could be regarded as an
> equivalent of 'pale fire'". See also page 81 where Kinbote comes
> tantalizingly close to uttering the title with "pale and diaphanous final
> phase". See page 15 in the Foreword where Kinbote uses the title
> descriptively: "the pale fire of the incinerator".
>
> The title may also be found in Yeats' "A Poet to His Beloved" (as I
believe
> someone has pointed out):
>
> I BRING you with reverent hands
> The books of my numberless dreams;
> White woman that passion has worn
> As the tide wears the dove-gray sands,
> And with heart more old than the horn
> That is brimmed from the pale fire of time:
> White woman with numberless dreams
> I bring you my passionate rhyme.
>
> Arguably, the theme of this poem has something in common with Shade's.
>
>
> akaJasperFidget
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:47:51 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
>
> _Pale Fire_ was written 1960-1961, published 1962 by Putnam, a second
> edition 1966 by Lancer, reprinted 1980 by Perigee. Nabokov moved to
> Switzerland in 1961 (where he lived out the remainder of his life), so
this
> was his last work created in America. It was his 14th novel, the 5th in
> English (after _The Real Life of Sebastian Knight_ [1941], _Bend Sinister_
> [1947], _Lolita_ [1955], and _Pnin_ [1957]).
>
> _Pale Fire_ is an "involuted" (or "self-reflexive") novel -- a novel that
> contains the details concerning its own origin or composition. An
> antecedent is Andre Gide's _The Counterfeiters_ (1926) which is a diary
kept
> by a novelist about a work-in-progress called _The Counterfeiters_
(followed
> in the same year by Gide's _Journal of The Counterfeiters_, the journal
he'd
> kept while writing the novel _The Counterfeiters_). There's at least one
> reference to Gide in _Pale Fire_. Another example of an involuted novel:
> Raymond Queneau's _Les Enfants du Limon_ (1938). Anyone got more?
>
> _Pale Fire_ is a fictional academic work -- a work of mock scholarship.
> Some of Borges' stories come to mind. There must be others...?
>
> And it is a work that contains another work: this makes one think of
> Elizabethan drama, especially _Hamlet_.
>
> An antecedent for the fabula of _Pale Fire_ may be found in Gogol's "Diary
> of a Madman" (1834), a narrative by a man who believes he is the King of
> Spain and fails to realize that nobody else shares his delusions. This
> opens another interpretive possibility: that Kinbote, like Gogol's
> Poprishchin, suffers from schizophrenia:
> http://bmj.com/cgi/content/full/323/7327/1475
>
> Structurally, _Pale Fire_ probably evolved from VN's experience
translating
> Alexander Pushkin's _Eugene Onegin_ (1823-31), which contains a preface by
> Nabokov, the translated poem, a large commentary, and finally an index
> (supplied by VN's son Dmitri), all in proportions similar to those found
in
> _Pale Fire_ (although around four times the size).
>
> But PF has more than a passing similarity to other long poems, and these
> have their own relation to the text:
>
> - -=T.S. Eliot's "Four Quartets"=-
> http://www.tristan.icom43.net/quartets/
>
> The first five lines of which may seem particularly relevant:
>
> "Time present and time past
> Are both perhaps present in time future,
> And time future contained in time past.
> If all time is eternally present
> All time is unredeemable."
>
> Shade even seems to adopt Eliot's style of indentation for certain verses
> (someone with better poetry voodoo might explain their purpose, although I
> recall being told it has to do with attempting to guide or ease the
reader's
> eye through transitions).
>
> - -=Alexander Pope's "The Dunciad"=-
> http://eir.library.utoronto.ca/rpo/display/poem1628.html
> http://www.blackmask.com/cgi-bin/links/jump.cgi?ID=b6685
>
> A poem in four "books" containing a preface, the poem, a commentary, and
> notes, all composed by the author. Note that John Shade is a Pope scholar
> and a specialist in 18th century literature.
>
> - -=Lord Byron's "Childe Harold's Pilgrimage"=-
> http://www.photoaspects.com/chesil/byron/childe1.html
>
> Consists of a Preface and four cantos. From the Preface: "A fictitious
> character is introduced for the sake of giving some connexion to the
piece;
> which, however, makes no pretension to regularity."
>
> Not that I'm trying to argue any particular point of view here.... Byron
> (arguably) also shows up _Pale Fire_.
>
> - --There's also Pound's Cantos but I'm not sure VN thought much of Pound
> (although he didn't seem to like Eliot all that much either).
>
> - --And of course Dante wrote in Cantos: http://www.bartleby.com/20/
> Shade has a bust of Dante on his bookshelf.
>
> akaJasperFidget
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:47:53 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: NPPF - Preliminary - Dedication and Epigraph
>
> The Dedication: "To Vera"
>
> All of VN's work is dedicated to his wife. In this particular case, given
> the novel's attention to Shade's relationship with Sybil (reading the poem
> to her, addressing her from within it), "To Vera" has been linked to "To
> Sybil" as evidence toward a particular interpretation of authorship (the
> so-called "Shadean" reading -- for a discussion of the Shadean reading as
> well as other theories see Boyd's article here:
>
> http://www.libraries.psu.edu/iasweb/nabokov/boydonmc.htm
>
> - -- would it be useful post a brief list of the existing authorship
> theories...?).
>
> The Epigraph:
>
> "This reminds me of the ludicrous account[...]"
>
> There is a paragraph preceding the one quoted that introduces Hodge in
_Life
> of Samuel Johnson_; this is the larger quote:
>
> "I never shall forget the indulgence with which he treated Hodge, his cat:
> for whom he himself used to go out and buy oysters, lest the servants
having
> that trouble should take a dislike to the poor creature. I am, unluckily,
> one of those who have an antipathy to a cat, so that I am uneasy when in
the
> room with one; and I own, I frequently suffered a good deal from the
> presence of this same Hodge. I recollect him one day scrambling up Dr.
> Johnson's breast, apparently with much satisfaction, while my friend
smiling
> and half-whistling, rubbed down his back, and pulled him by the tail; and
> when I observed he was a fine cat, saying, 'Why yes, Sir, but I have had
> cats whom I liked better than this;' and then as if perceiving Hodge to be
> out of countenance, adding, 'but he is a very fine cat, a very fine cat
> indeed.'
>
> This reminds me of the ludicrous account which he gave Mr. Langton, of the
> despicable state of a young Gentleman of good family. 'Sir, when I heard
of
> him last, he was running about town shooting cats.' And then in a sort of
> kindly reverie, he bethought himself of his own favourite cat, and said,
> 'But Hodge shan't be shot; no, no, Hodge shall not be shot.'" (_Life of
> Johnson_, Chapter 41)
>
> I will delay sponsoring any theories for the time being, but:
>
> Perhaps most importantly, this is described by Boswell as a "ludicrous
> account".
>
> Kinbote would have himself a sort of Boswell for Shade (among other
things),
> and the image of "a young gentleman of good family [...] running about
town
> shooting" summons to mind another of PF's characters, but if we are to
make
> substitutions, then which (or who) is Johnson's favorite cat? And why?
>
> Kinbote shan't be shot; no, no, Kinbote shall not be shot? Shade shan't
be
> shot: no, no, Shade shall not be shot? Goldsworth shall not be... and so
> on.
>
> On page 112 Kinbote says, "some cats are less repugnant than others to the
> good-natured dog told to endure the bitter effluvium of an alien genus".
> The context is of Kinbote's brief time spent in the company of Fleur de
> Fyler, whose repeated attempts to seduce him (Fleur de Fyler -> flower
> defiler -> de-virginizer) are met with annoyance or indifference (Kinbote
is
> homosexual).
>
> Incidentally, there is what appears to be a typo in this quote as it
appears
> in _Pale Fire_, namely the colon in the last sentence "But Hodge shan't be
> shot: no" appears as a semicolon in Boswell's work (in all the sources at
my
> disposal anyway, none of which have been translated from Zemblan).
>
> Boswell's _Life of Samuel Johnson_:
> http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/b/b74l/
> http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/gutbook/lookup?num=1564
>
>
> akaJasperFidget
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 07 Jul 2003 10:32:21 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Title
>
> On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 09:47, Jasper Fidget wrote:
> > As the text suggests (repeatedly), the title _Pale Fire_ may come from
> > Shakespeare's _Timon of Athens_ 4:3, line 423:
> >
> > The sun's a thief, and with his great attraction
> > Robs the vast sea; the moon's an arrant thief,
> > And her pale fire she snatches from the sun;
> > The sea's a thief, whose liquid surge resolves
> > The moon into salt tears; the earth's a thief,
> > That feeds and breeds by a composture stolen
> > >From general excrement, each thing's a thief;
> > The laws, your curb and whip, in their rough power
> > Have uncheck'd theft. Love not yourselves; away!
> >
> > Shade pulls the title from within the poem on line 962: "Help me, Will!
> > _Pale Fire_", at the end of a verse enumerating his published works and
> > implying that he has dispensed with the (perhaps peculiar) habit of
certain
> > authors (for instance Faulkner) of adopting their titles from phrases in
> > other author's works (usually Shakespeare). Note that Shade has quoted
from
> > a passage denouncing thievery (making this a doubly odd or at least
ironic
> > choice...). Furthermore, Nabokov loudly criticized Scott Moncrieff's
> > translation of Proust's _A la Recherche du Temps Perdu_, not least
because
> > of the translator's unaccountable adoption of phrases from Shakespeare
for
> > use as titles, making Nabokov's choice for his novel certainly a
peculiar
> > one.
>
>
> To tie things into Pynchon at the earlier opportunity, Kinbote
> criticizes Slade for using another writer's words for the title of his
> (Slade's) collection of essays The Untamed Seahorse
>
> P.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 07 Jul 2003 10:45:40 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Title
>
> On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 10:32, Paul Mackin wrote:
> > On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 09:47, Jasper Fidget wrote:
> > > As the text suggests (repeatedly), the title _Pale Fire_ may come from
> > > Shakespeare's _Timon of Athens_ 4:3, line 423:
> > >
> > > The sun's a thief, and with his great attraction
> > > Robs the vast sea; the moon's an arrant thief,
> > > And her pale fire she snatches from the sun;
> > > The sea's a thief, whose liquid surge resolves
> > > The moon into salt tears; the earth's a thief,
> > > That feeds and breeds by a composture stolen
> > > >From general excrement, each thing's a thief;
> > > The laws, your curb and whip, in their rough power
> > > Have uncheck'd theft. Love not yourselves; away!
> > >
> > > Shade pulls the title from within the poem on line 962: "Help me,
Will!
> > > _Pale Fire_", at the end of a verse enumerating his published works
and
> > > implying that he has dispensed with the (perhaps peculiar) habit of
certain
> > > authors (for instance Faulkner) of adopting their titles from phrases
in
> > > other author's works (usually Shakespeare). Note that Shade has
quoted from
> > > a passage denouncing thievery (making this a doubly odd or at least
ironic
> > > choice...). Furthermore, Nabokov loudly criticized Scott Moncrieff's
> > > translation of Proust's _A la Recherche du Temps Perdu_, not least
because
> > > of the translator's unaccountable adoption of phrases from Shakespeare
for
> > > use as titles, making Nabokov's choice for his novel certainly a
peculiar
> > > one.
> >
> >
> > To tie things into Pynchon at the earlier opportunity, Kinbote
> > criticizes Slade for using another writer's words for the title of his
> > (Slade's) collection of essays The Untamed Seahorse
> >
> > P.
> >
>
>
> The work is Browning's My Last Duchess, not Pynchon's Mason & Dixon.
> Just to make things perfectly clear.
>
> And the name is Shade, not Slade.
>
> P.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 07 Jul 2003 11:03:23 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Dedication and Epigraph
>
> On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 09:47, Jasper Fidget wrote:
> > The Dedication: "To Vera"
> >
> > All of VN's work is dedicated to his wife. In this particular case,
given
> > the novel's attention to Shade's relationship with Sybil (reading the
poem
> > to her, addressing her from within it), "To Vera" has been linked to "To
> > Sybil" as evidence toward a particular interpretation of authorship (the
> > so-called "Shadean" reading -- for a discussion of the Shadean reading
as
> > well as other theories see Boyd's article here:
>
>
>
> The dedication to Vera resonates with still another theory of
> authorship. She announced to the world her husband's interest in the
> otherworldly.
>
> P.
> >
> > http://www.libraries.psu.edu/iasweb/nabokov/boydonmc.htm
> >
> > -- would it be useful post a brief list of the existing authorship
> > theories...?).
> >
> > The Epigraph:
> >
> > "This reminds me of the ludicrous account[...]"
> >
> > There is a paragraph preceding the one quoted that introduces Hodge in
_Life
> > of Samuel Johnson_; this is the larger quote:
> >
> > "I never shall forget the indulgence with which he treated Hodge, his
cat:
> > for whom he himself used to go out and buy oysters, lest the servants
having
> > that trouble should take a dislike to the poor creature. I am,
unluckily,
> > one of those who have an antipathy to a cat, so that I am uneasy when in
the
> > room with one; and I own, I frequently suffered a good deal from the
> > presence of this same Hodge. I recollect him one day scrambling up Dr.
> > Johnson's breast, apparently with much satisfaction, while my friend
smiling
> > and half-whistling, rubbed down his back, and pulled him by the tail;
and
> > when I observed he was a fine cat, saying, 'Why yes, Sir, but I have had
> > cats whom I liked better than this;' and then as if perceiving Hodge to
be
> > out of countenance, adding, 'but he is a very fine cat, a very fine cat
> > indeed.'
> >
> > This reminds me of the ludicrous account which he gave Mr. Langton, of
the
> > despicable state of a young Gentleman of good family. 'Sir, when I
heard of
> > him last, he was running about town shooting cats.' And then in a sort
of
> > kindly reverie, he bethought himself of his own favourite cat, and said,
> > 'But Hodge shan't be shot; no, no, Hodge shall not be shot.'" (_Life of
> > Johnson_, Chapter 41)
> >
> > I will delay sponsoring any theories for the time being, but:
> >
> > Perhaps most importantly, this is described by Boswell as a "ludicrous
> > account".
> >
> > Kinbote would have himself a sort of Boswell for Shade (among other
things),
> > and the image of "a young gentleman of good family [...] running about
town
> > shooting" summons to mind another of PF's characters, but if we are to
make
> > substitutions, then which (or who) is Johnson's favorite cat? And why?
> >
> > Kinbote shan't be shot; no, no, Kinbote shall not be shot? Shade shan't
be
> > shot: no, no, Shade shall not be shot? Goldsworth shall not be... and
so
> > on.
> >
> > On page 112 Kinbote says, "some cats are less repugnant than others to
the
> > good-natured dog told to endure the bitter effluvium of an alien genus".
> > The context is of Kinbote's brief time spent in the company of Fleur de
> > Fyler, whose repeated attempts to seduce him (Fleur de Fyler -> flower
> > defiler -> de-virginizer) are met with annoyance or indifference
(Kinbote is
> > homosexual).
> >
> > Incidentally, there is what appears to be a typo in this quote as it app
ears
> > in _Pale Fire_, namely the colon in the last sentence "But Hodge shan't
be
> > shot: no" appears as a semicolon in Boswell's work (in all the sources
at my
> > disposal anyway, none of which have been translated from Zemblan).
> >
> > Boswell's _Life of Samuel Johnson_:
> > http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/b/b74l/
> > http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/gutbook/lookup?num=1564
> >
> >
> > akaJasperFidget
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:03:07 EDT
> From: Elainemmbell@aol.com
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
>
> - --part1_bb.333f89cc.2c3ae5ab_boundary
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> In a message dated 7/7/2003 9:47:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> jasper@hatguild.org writes:
>
> > (someone with better poetry voodoo might explain their purpose, although
I
> > recall being told it has to do with attempting to guide or ease the
reader's
> > eye through transitions)
>
> Punctuation and indentation decisions in poetry do function as Jasper
> suggests but also provide the musical timing and cadence of the work. For
instance,
> in Canto One, lines 22-24:
>
> "Reading from left to right in winter's code:
> A dot, an arrow pointing back; repeat:
> Dot, arrow pointing back...A pheasant's feet!"
>
> You can "hear" the stop at :, the quarter-stop at , and the half-stop at:
> followed by the rhythmic stop at the second: then the actual repeat picks
up the
> implied rhythm only to trip into the kind of trill implied by the ellipsis
> rounding up to the double stop at the final !
>
> Whereas in lines 245-246 of Canto Two use the indentation rhythm to make
the
> line "Lafontaine was wrong:" the equivalent in beats as the apparently
longer
> next line:
> "Dead is the mandible, alive the song." The combination of a long opening
> indent plus a colon stop stretches the line with fewer syllables into the
same
> time signature as the longer line.
>
> In my conjure woman's humble interpretation, that is.
> Elaine M.M. Bell, Writer
> (860) 523-9225
>
> - --part1_bb.333f89cc.2c3ae5ab_boundary
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"
FACE=
> =3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 7/7/2003 9:47:49 AM Eastern
Dayligh=
> t Time, jasper@hatguild.org writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid;
MARGIN-LEFT=
> : 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">(someone with better poetry
voo=
> doo might explain their purpose, although I<BR>
> recall being told it has to do with attempting to guide or ease the
reader's=
> <BR>
> eye through transitions)</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
> <BR>
> Punctuation and indentation decisions in poetry do function as Jasper
sugges=
> ts but also provide the musical timing and cadence of the work. For
in=
> stance, in Canto One, lines 22-24:<BR>
> <BR>
> "Reading from left to right in winter's code: <BR>
> A dot, an arrow pointing back; repeat:<BR>
> Dot, arrow pointing back...A pheasant's feet!"<BR>
> <BR>
> You can "hear" the stop at :, the quarter-stop at , and the half-stop at:
fo=
> llowed by the rhythmic stop at the second: then the actual repeat
pick=
> s up the implied rhythm only to trip into the kind of trill implied by the
e=
> llipsis rounding up to the double stop at the final !<BR>
> <BR>
> Whereas in lines 245-246 of Canto Two use the indentation rhythm to make
the=
> line "Lafontaine was wrong:" the equivalent in beats as the apparently
long=
> er next line:<BR>
> "Dead is the mandible, alive the song." The combination of a long
open=
> ing indent plus a colon stop stretches the line with fewer syllables into
th=
> e same time signature as the longer line.<BR>
> <BR>
> In my conjure woman's humble interpretation, that is.<BR>
> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#008080" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
SIZE=3D2=
> FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Verdana" LANG=3D"0">Elaine M.M. Bell,
Writer<B=
> R>
> (860) 523-9225</FONT></HTML>
>
> - --part1_bb.333f89cc.2c3ae5ab_boundary--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:12:08 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Malignd <malignd@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Title
>
> <<Furthermore, Nabokov loudly criticized Scott
> Moncrieff's translation of Proust's _A la Recherche du
> Temps Perdu_, not least because of the translator's
> unaccountable adoption of phrases from Shakespeare for
> use as titles, making Nabokov's choice for his novel
> certainly a peculiar one.>>
>
> "Peculiar"? Given the themes of the novel, it's an
> entirely appropriate--I'd say perfect--title.
>
> However, as a title chosen by Shade for his poem, it
> provides a small hint (perhaps), as to how Nabokov
> views the poet he's created and, as we get further
> into the novel, this opens further doors into the
> endlessly mirroring discussion of internal authorship.
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 12:05:37 -0400
> From: The Great Quail <quail@libyrinth.com>
> Subject: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire & House of Leaves
>
> Jasper writes,
>
> > _Pale Fire_ is an "involuted" (or "self-reflexive") novel -- a novel
that
> > contains the details concerning its own origin or composition. Anyone
got
> more?
> > _Pale Fire_ is a fictional academic work -- a work of mock scholarship.
> > Some of Borges' stories come to mind. There must be others...?
> > And it is a work that contains another work: this makes one think of
> > Elizabethan drama, especially _Hamlet_.
>
> There's actually a very recent novel that meets all these criteria: Mark
Z.
> Danielewski's "House of Leaves."
>
> Clearly inspired in part by "Pale Fire," the book passes itself off as a
> genuine set of annotations by one Johnny Truant, who has organized and
> annotated the unpublished book, "House of Leaves," written by a
Borges-like
> figure named Zampano. The subject of Zampano's book is actually a film
> called "The Navidson Record," about a house that is bigger inside than it
is
> outside.
>
> The actual novel "House of Leaves" is therefore a series of nested
stories,
> narratives, and annotations.
>
> http://www.houseofleaves.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi
>
> http://www.themodernword.com/review_house_of_leaves.html
>
> - --Quail
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 07 Jul 2003 12:07:48 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
>
> On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 09:47, Jasper Fidget wrote:
> >
> >
> > _Pale Fire_ is an "involuted" (or "self-reflexive") novel -- a novel
that
> > contains the details concerning its own origin or composition. An
> > antecedent is Andre Gide's _The Counterfeiters_ (1926) which is a diary
kept
> > by a novelist about a work-in-progress called _The Counterfeiters_
(followed
> > in the same year by Gide's _Journal of The Counterfeiters_, the journal
he'd
> > kept while writing the novel _The Counterfeiters_). There's at least
one
> > reference to Gide in _Pale Fire_. Another example of an involuted
novel:
> > Raymond Queneau's _Les Enfants du Limon_ (1938). Anyone got more?
>
> Strange word involuted. Shade uses involute in Canto Three.
>
> No sound,/No furtive light came from their involute/Abode,
>
> Isn't A la recherche du temps perdu a reflexive novel
>
>
>
>
> P.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:22:32 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Malignd <malignd@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
>
> <<Anyone got more?>>
>
> If On A Winter's Night A Traveler, by Italo Calvino.
>
> One Hundred Years of Solitude ends with an involution,
> as the reader and the last living Buendia realize each
> is reading a translation of Melquaides's journal and
> that this last living Buendia will die when he
> finishes the journal, at the very moment the reader
> finishes 100 Years of Solitude.
>
> John Barth's Lost in the Funhouse, a collection of
> stories, is a primer on involution.
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:37:50 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
>
> So lyrically I guess it's a strong poem then? But is "Pale Fire" a *good*
> poem? Does it really merit a book-length commentary and index? Is John
> Shade a *good* poet, or is he, as Kernan writes, "the belated writer who
has
> no authentic voice of his own but merely echoes earlier stronger writers"?
> (Alvin B. Kernan, "Reading Zemblan: The Audience Disappears in _Pale
> Fire_").
>
> akaJasperFidget
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Elainemmbell@aol.com [mailto:Elainemmbell@aol.com]
> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 11:03 AM
> > To: jasper@hatguild.org; pynchon-l@waste.org
> > Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> >
> > In a message dated 7/7/2003 9:47:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > jasper@hatguild.org writes:
> >
> >
> >
> > (someone with better poetry voodoo might explain their purpose,
> > although I
> > recall being told it has to do with attempting to guide or ease the
> > reader's
> > eye through transitions)
> >
> >
> >
> > Punctuation and indentation decisions in poetry do function as Jasper
> > suggests but also provide the musical timing and cadence of the work.
For
> > instance, in Canto One, lines 22-24:
> >
> > "Reading from left to right in winter's code:
> > A dot, an arrow pointing back; repeat:
> > Dot, arrow pointing back...A pheasant's feet!"
> >
> > You can "hear" the stop at :, the quarter-stop at , and the half-stop
at:
> > followed by the rhythmic stop at the second: then the actual repeat
picks
> > up the implied rhythm only to trip into the kind of trill implied by the
> > ellipsis rounding up to the double stop at the final !
> >
> > Whereas in lines 245-246 of Canto Two use the indentation rhythm to make
> > the line "Lafontaine was wrong:" the equivalent in beats as the
apparently
> > longer next line:
> > "Dead is the mandible, alive the song." The combination of a long
opening
> > indent plus a colon stop stretches the line with fewer syllables into
the
> > same time signature as the longer line.
> >
> > In my conjure woman's humble interpretation, that is.
> > Elaine M.M. Bell, Writer
> > (860) 523-9225
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:38:05 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Title
>
> Agreed. I should have said "noteworthy" instead of "peculiar"; certainly
> worth looking into.
>
> akaJasperFidget
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > Behalf Of Malignd
> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 11:12 AM
> > To: pynchon-l@waste.org
> > Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Title
> >
> > <<Furthermore, Nabokov loudly criticized Scott
> > Moncrieff's translation of Proust's _A la Recherche du
> > Temps Perdu_, not least because of the translator's
> > unaccountable adoption of phrases from Shakespeare for
> > use as titles, making Nabokov's choice for his novel
> > certainly a peculiar one.>>
> >
> > "Peculiar"? Given the themes of the novel, it's an
> > entirely appropriate--I'd say perfect--title.
> >
> > However, as a title chosen by Shade for his poem, it
> > provides a small hint (perhaps), as to how Nabokov
> > views the poet he's created and, as we get further
> > into the novel, this opens further doors into the
> > endlessly mirroring discussion of internal authorship.
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> > http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:40:22 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
>
> Does Marcel ever get to the point where he writes it? Can't remember. I
> suppose the definition might be extended to include all Kunstlerroman.
> (Interesting angle: _Pale Fire_ as Kunstlerroman.... -- a bit of a stretch
> certainly.)
>
> See 162 for Kinbote's rant on Proust.
>
> akaJasperFidget
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > Behalf Of Paul Mackin
> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 12:08 PM
> > To: pynchon-l@waste.org
> > Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> >
> > On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 09:47, Jasper Fidget wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > _Pale Fire_ is an "involuted" (or "self-reflexive") novel -- a novel
> > that
> > > contains the details concerning its own origin or composition. An
> > > antecedent is Andre Gide's _The Counterfeiters_ (1926) which is a
diary
> > kept
> > > by a novelist about a work-in-progress called _The Counterfeiters_
> > (followed
> > > in the same year by Gide's _Journal of The Counterfeiters_, the
journal
> > he'd
> > > kept while writing the novel _The Counterfeiters_). There's at least
> > one
> > > reference to Gide in _Pale Fire_. Another example of an involuted
> > novel:
> > > Raymond Queneau's _Les Enfants du Limon_ (1938). Anyone got more?
> >
> > Strange word involuted. Shade uses involute in Canto Three.
> >
> > No sound,/No furtive light came from their involute/Abode,
> >
> > Isn't A la recherche du temps perdu a reflexive novel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > P.
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 07 Jul 2003 12:42:38 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF: anagrams
>
> On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 09:20, David Morris wrote:
> >
> > --- Malignd <malignd@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > And the Kinbote/Botkin near-anagram is already alive within Pale Fire.
> >
> > But who is Botkin?
> >
>
> We may never know. But I do honestly believe that the first and
> immediate association many readers of Pale Fire will have is
>
> When he himself might his quietus make/ With a bare bodkin . .
>
> Hamlet Act 3, Scene 1
>
> That was my experience anyway.
>
> Not necessarily anything logical about an association.
>
> Incidentally there's another place in Shakespeare where the words 'pale'
> and 'fire' occur in the same line. (I read somewhere)
>
> P.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:49:01 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire & House of Leaves
>
> I tried this book a couple of years ago (based in part on your enthusiasm
> for it), and while I liked its ideas and structure, I thought the writing
> seemed a bit immature. I seem to recall it also gave birth to a song (or
a
> whole album) by his sister...? I wonder if there's also an actual film
> somewhere....
>
> Jspr Fdgt
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > Behalf Of The Great Quail
> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 12:06 PM
> > To: The Whole Sick Crew
> > Subject: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire & House of Leaves
> >
> > Jasper writes,
> >
> > > _Pale Fire_ is an "involuted" (or "self-reflexive") novel -- a novel
> > that
> > > contains the details concerning its own origin or composition. Anyone
> > got
> > more?
> > > _Pale Fire_ is a fictional academic work -- a work of mock
scholarship.
> > > Some of Borges' stories come to mind. There must be others...?
> > > And it is a work that contains another work: this makes one think of
> > > Elizabethan drama, especially _Hamlet_.
> >
> > There's actually a very recent novel that meets all these criteria: Mark
> > Z.
> > Danielewski's "House of Leaves."
> >
> > Clearly inspired in part by "Pale Fire," the book passes itself off as a
> > genuine set of annotations by one Johnny Truant, who has organized and
> > annotated the unpublished book, "House of Leaves," written by a Borges-
> > like
> > figure named Zampano. The subject of Zampano's book is actually a film
> > called "The Navidson Record," about a house that is bigger inside than
it
> > is
> > outside.
> >
> > The actual novel "House of Leaves" is therefore a series of nested
> > stories,
> > narratives, and annotations.
> >
> > http://www.houseofleaves.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi
> >
> > http://www.themodernword.com/review_house_of_leaves.html
> >
> > --Quail
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:51:21 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF: anagrams
>
> - --- Malignd <malignd@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > <<But who is Botkin?>>
> > I'm afraid you're actually going to need to read the novel.
>
> Well, er, I have. And I only vaguely remember the name being brought up
in the
> commentary, and I didn't take notes the first time through. But I'm on my
> second read now, at Canto Four, with a growing pile of notes (I enjoyed
the
> poem better the second time). So I'll get back to Botkin soon...
>
> DM
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:05:26 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Malignd <malignd@yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
>
> <<So lyrically I guess it's a strong poem then? But
> is "Pale Fire" a *good* poem? Does it really merit a
> book-length commentary and index? Is John
> Shade a *good* poet, or is he, as Kernan writes, "the
> belated writer who has no authentic voice of his own
> but merely echoes earlier stronger writers"?
> (Alvin B. Kernan, "Reading Zemblan: The Audience
> Disappears in _Pale Fire_").>>
>
> This question is at the crux of much that will be of
> interest as we push deeper and deeper into the novel.
> Perhaps too rich a question for so early in the game.
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:07:20 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: NPPF: anagrams
>
> - --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> >
> > See also Index, page 306 of _Pale Fire_. Note: both *bot* ("plop") and
> *boteliy* ("big-bellied") are actual words to be found in the Russian Dal
(the
> Russian equivalent of the OED).
> >
> > See also text of _Pale Fire_: pp 100, 155, 220, 267
>
> Thanks. This is very helpful. Also, I hadn't waded through the index,
but I
> suppose I should...
>
> David Morris
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:08:50 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Malignd <malignd@yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire & House of Leaves
>
> <<I tried this book a couple of years ago (based in
> part on your enthusiasm for it), and while I liked its
> ideas and structure, I thought the writing seemed a
> bit immature. >>
>
> I agree in part. Some of the writing was quite good,
> but the Johnny Truant sections were laborious and
> uninspired.
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 07 Jul 2003 13:15:17 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
>
> On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 12:40, Jasper Fidget wrote:
> > Does Marcel ever get to the point where he writes it? Can't remember.
>
> He just gets to that point ("Is there still time?" "Am I well enough?"
>
> But the book we've just read is the book to be written.
>
> It's a circle.
>
> Perhaps it could be called recursive. As if the novel were computed from
> itself.
>
>
>
> P.
>
>
>
>
> I
> > suppose the definition might be extended to include all Kunstlerroman.
> > (Interesting angle: _Pale Fire_ as Kunstlerroman.... -- a bit of a
stretch
> > certainly.)
> >
> > See 162 for Kinbote's rant on Proust.
> >
> > akaJasperFidget
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > > Behalf Of Paul Mackin
> > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 12:08 PM
> > > To: pynchon-l@waste.org
> > > Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> > >
> > > On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 09:47, Jasper Fidget wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _Pale Fire_ is an "involuted" (or "self-reflexive") novel -- a novel
> > > that
> > > > contains the details concerning its own origin or composition. An
> > > > antecedent is Andre Gide's _The Counterfeiters_ (1926) which is a
diary
> > > kept
> > > > by a novelist about a work-in-progress called _The Counterfeiters_
> > > (followed
> > > > in the same year by Gide's _Journal of The Counterfeiters_, the
journal
> > > he'd
> > > > kept while writing the novel _The Counterfeiters_). There's at
least
> > > one
> > > > reference to Gide in _Pale Fire_. Another example of an involuted
> > > novel:
> > > > Raymond Queneau's _Les Enfants du Limon_ (1938). Anyone got more?
> > >
> > > Strange word involuted. Shade uses involute in Canto Three.
> > >
> > > No sound,/No furtive light came from their involute/Abode,
> > >
> > > Isn't A la recherche du temps perdu a reflexive novel
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > P.
> > >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3378
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