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Fwd: RE: Nabokov & a color question
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Let me add my personal thanks to you for your generous response to my
questions.
I suppose that Berlin and Kay's theory was the source of Betty Edwards's
assertion about the color word blue.
Especially interesting is your explanation of the many connotations of the
Greek "color" words and the ancient lack of our specific concept of hue. I
did not know that it was Newton who set seven as the number of rainbow
colors, although it is fairly obvious that the number is arbitrary. I
learned in childhood that there are six rainbow colors. That number may
come from the original Binney&Smith crayon boxes (rather than the reverse,
which at that time I took for granted), or else from the color wheel of an
artist's palette, where we need to use three primaries to get the secondary
and tertiary hues.
Mary Krimmel
>EDNOTE. Many thanks to Adelina Grand-Clement for this well-informed item on
>color--a subject of great interest to VN. I know of no other writer who
>uses so
>many color terms, a phenomenon perhaps connected with his "colored hearing."
>From: adeline grand-clément <adddeline@hotmail.com>
>
>
>
>THE ANSWER :
>
>Hello,
>
>IÂ’m doing a Phd in Ancient History in France : I study the function of
>colour in the Greek archaic culture (VIII-VI BC), so I know a few things
>about the Homeric question and the question of the meaning of greek colour
>terms. I will try to answer the few questions you asked (“try”, because you
>raise very complex problems !) :
>
>1- “I have heard that blue is the last color to be named in every language,
>but have heard no definite reason why this is so” :
>
>Two American sociologists, Berlin and Kay, have wrote a theory about the
>colour terms which do exist in all languages : BERLIN Brent and KAY Paul,
>Basic Color Terms, Berkeley-Los Angeles, University of California Press,
>1969. They have studied different languages all over the world and have
>concluded that when a language have only two colour terms, these are always
>black and white ; three colour terms : black, white and red ; four : B, W,
>R and yellow or green ; five : B, W, R, Y, G ; six : the colour blue does
>appear ; seven : violet ; Â… I donÂ’t remember whether they suggest the reason
>for such a sequence. This theory have been criticized because it doesnÂ’t
>necessary work with every language. For example, I think you canÂ’t apply it
>to Homeric language.
>
>2- “Was there no word for blue when Homer wrote ?” ; “What about Athena's
>glaucous eyes, which Andrew Lang translated as gray eyes and which somebody
>interpreted, in a program about Ulysses, as eyes of the most brilliant blue
>that television could produce?” :
>
>In fact, it does exist two terms in the Homeric poems which can signify
>partly what we call “blue” : kyanos and glaukos. The specialists don’t agree
>about their exact meaning : in fact, in the ancient periods, people didnÂ’t
>have a “scientific” perception of colour, as we have, with precise words to
>refer to precise hues. We should remember for example that the discoveries
>of Newton are quite recent, and that the choice of the number seven to
>encompass the very subtle range of hues you can see in the rainbow is quite
>arbitrary (Newton has chosen the number to establish a correspondence with
>music). Ancient greek adjectives for colour donÂ’t refer only to hue : they
>denote more often the lightness/darkness, texture, movement, and sometimes
>sounds and smells, in a kind of synaesthesic process. The affective
>connotations play also an important part in the use of the words. So the
>translation is a brain-teaser for specialists ! About the meaning of a few
>greek colour words, you can read the very good study :
>IRWIN Eleanor, Colour terms in Greek poetry, Toronto, Hakkert, 1974, 242 p.
>- In Homer, Kyanos refers to a dark blue, which sometimes can appear black.
>It denotes power and has strong chtonic connotations. Homer never uses it to
>describe the sea (but later other greek poets will).
>
>- Glaukos doesnÂ’t refer to a definite hue : grey, blue, blue-greyÂ… But what
>is important is that it denotes lightness, fierceness, and very special
>power. AthenaÂ’s eyes are apotropaic.
>MAXWELL-STUART P. G., Studies in Greek Colour Terminology, I, Glaukos,
>Mnémosyne, Bibliotheca Classica Batava, Suppléments 35, Leiden, éd. Brill,
>1981.
>
>3- “The homeric "purpureum" might not necessarily refer to a "wine-red sea"
>but to the absence of a word for blue” ; “Was the sea wine-red because there
>was no word for blue? (I've not seen the Mediterranean, but I've seen red
>wine and it's hard to imagine any sea that color or any shade of
>"wine-dark". Maybe unfermented juice of purple or black grapes? Or maybe on
>rare occasions, as during an unusual sunset?)” :
>
>The meaning of the formula “porphureos” is a complex question. I don’t think
>it is used because there is not a good adjective to describe the colour
>blue.
>In Antiquity, the purple dye was not of a precise colour : with the murex
>you can obtain a great range of colours : from deep blue to bright red. So
>it is not surprising using it about the sea, which colour can vary in
>function of atmospheric conditions. But the expression doesnÂ’t refer only to
>colour : it has a symbolic meaning. The verb “porphurô” signify “to move, to
>bubble”. So there is a contamination of the expression, and the adjective
>‘porphureos’ convey also this image. Moreover, it has worrying, sinister
>connotations (Homer uses it also to qualify death) : for ancient Greeks,
>sailing was always something dangerousÂ… They didnÂ’t have the same perception
>of the sea we have now.
>But what is very interesting, is that the other adjectives Homer uses about
>the sea are, apart white (leukos) and grey (polios), violet (ioeis) and “the
>colour of wine” (oinops). So there is a strong connection with the idea of a
>profound, dark colourÂ…. Perhaps linked to religious connotations (cf :
>DARAKI M., «La mer dionysiaque», Revue de l’Histoire des religions, tome
>CIC, fasc. 1, Janvier-mars 1982, p. 3-22).
>A very good paper was written about this topic by an italian specialist :
>FERRINI M. F., “La porpora e il mare”, Atti Istituto Veneto di Scienze,
>lettere ed Arti, Clasedi Scienze morali, lettere ed arti, 158 (1), 2000, p.
>47-94.
>
>If you are really interested in these questions, I can send a few
>bibliographic references moreÂ…
>
>Adeline Grand-Clément
----- End forwarded message -----
questions.
I suppose that Berlin and Kay's theory was the source of Betty Edwards's
assertion about the color word blue.
Especially interesting is your explanation of the many connotations of the
Greek "color" words and the ancient lack of our specific concept of hue. I
did not know that it was Newton who set seven as the number of rainbow
colors, although it is fairly obvious that the number is arbitrary. I
learned in childhood that there are six rainbow colors. That number may
come from the original Binney&Smith crayon boxes (rather than the reverse,
which at that time I took for granted), or else from the color wheel of an
artist's palette, where we need to use three primaries to get the secondary
and tertiary hues.
Mary Krimmel
>EDNOTE. Many thanks to Adelina Grand-Clement for this well-informed item on
>color--a subject of great interest to VN. I know of no other writer who
>uses so
>many color terms, a phenomenon perhaps connected with his "colored hearing."
>From: adeline grand-clément <adddeline@hotmail.com>
>
>
>
>THE ANSWER :
>
>Hello,
>
>IÂ’m doing a Phd in Ancient History in France : I study the function of
>colour in the Greek archaic culture (VIII-VI BC), so I know a few things
>about the Homeric question and the question of the meaning of greek colour
>terms. I will try to answer the few questions you asked (“try”, because you
>raise very complex problems !) :
>
>1- “I have heard that blue is the last color to be named in every language,
>but have heard no definite reason why this is so” :
>
>Two American sociologists, Berlin and Kay, have wrote a theory about the
>colour terms which do exist in all languages : BERLIN Brent and KAY Paul,
>Basic Color Terms, Berkeley-Los Angeles, University of California Press,
>1969. They have studied different languages all over the world and have
>concluded that when a language have only two colour terms, these are always
>black and white ; three colour terms : black, white and red ; four : B, W,
>R and yellow or green ; five : B, W, R, Y, G ; six : the colour blue does
>appear ; seven : violet ; Â… I donÂ’t remember whether they suggest the reason
>for such a sequence. This theory have been criticized because it doesnÂ’t
>necessary work with every language. For example, I think you canÂ’t apply it
>to Homeric language.
>
>2- “Was there no word for blue when Homer wrote ?” ; “What about Athena's
>glaucous eyes, which Andrew Lang translated as gray eyes and which somebody
>interpreted, in a program about Ulysses, as eyes of the most brilliant blue
>that television could produce?” :
>
>In fact, it does exist two terms in the Homeric poems which can signify
>partly what we call “blue” : kyanos and glaukos. The specialists don’t agree
>about their exact meaning : in fact, in the ancient periods, people didnÂ’t
>have a “scientific” perception of colour, as we have, with precise words to
>refer to precise hues. We should remember for example that the discoveries
>of Newton are quite recent, and that the choice of the number seven to
>encompass the very subtle range of hues you can see in the rainbow is quite
>arbitrary (Newton has chosen the number to establish a correspondence with
>music). Ancient greek adjectives for colour donÂ’t refer only to hue : they
>denote more often the lightness/darkness, texture, movement, and sometimes
>sounds and smells, in a kind of synaesthesic process. The affective
>connotations play also an important part in the use of the words. So the
>translation is a brain-teaser for specialists ! About the meaning of a few
>greek colour words, you can read the very good study :
>IRWIN Eleanor, Colour terms in Greek poetry, Toronto, Hakkert, 1974, 242 p.
>- In Homer, Kyanos refers to a dark blue, which sometimes can appear black.
>It denotes power and has strong chtonic connotations. Homer never uses it to
>describe the sea (but later other greek poets will).
>
>- Glaukos doesnÂ’t refer to a definite hue : grey, blue, blue-greyÂ… But what
>is important is that it denotes lightness, fierceness, and very special
>power. AthenaÂ’s eyes are apotropaic.
>MAXWELL-STUART P. G., Studies in Greek Colour Terminology, I, Glaukos,
>Mnémosyne, Bibliotheca Classica Batava, Suppléments 35, Leiden, éd. Brill,
>1981.
>
>3- “The homeric "purpureum" might not necessarily refer to a "wine-red sea"
>but to the absence of a word for blue” ; “Was the sea wine-red because there
>was no word for blue? (I've not seen the Mediterranean, but I've seen red
>wine and it's hard to imagine any sea that color or any shade of
>"wine-dark". Maybe unfermented juice of purple or black grapes? Or maybe on
>rare occasions, as during an unusual sunset?)” :
>
>The meaning of the formula “porphureos” is a complex question. I don’t think
>it is used because there is not a good adjective to describe the colour
>blue.
>In Antiquity, the purple dye was not of a precise colour : with the murex
>you can obtain a great range of colours : from deep blue to bright red. So
>it is not surprising using it about the sea, which colour can vary in
>function of atmospheric conditions. But the expression doesnÂ’t refer only to
>colour : it has a symbolic meaning. The verb “porphurô” signify “to move, to
>bubble”. So there is a contamination of the expression, and the adjective
>‘porphureos’ convey also this image. Moreover, it has worrying, sinister
>connotations (Homer uses it also to qualify death) : for ancient Greeks,
>sailing was always something dangerousÂ… They didnÂ’t have the same perception
>of the sea we have now.
>But what is very interesting, is that the other adjectives Homer uses about
>the sea are, apart white (leukos) and grey (polios), violet (ioeis) and “the
>colour of wine” (oinops). So there is a strong connection with the idea of a
>profound, dark colourÂ…. Perhaps linked to religious connotations (cf :
>DARAKI M., «La mer dionysiaque», Revue de l’Histoire des religions, tome
>CIC, fasc. 1, Janvier-mars 1982, p. 3-22).
>A very good paper was written about this topic by an italian specialist :
>FERRINI M. F., “La porpora e il mare”, Atti Istituto Veneto di Scienze,
>lettere ed Arti, Clasedi Scienze morali, lettere ed arti, 158 (1), 2000, p.
>47-94.
>
>If you are really interested in these questions, I can send a few
>bibliographic references moreÂ…
>
>Adeline Grand-Clément
----- End forwarded message -----