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Re: THOUGHTS: Kinbote as gay sterotype or symbol
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I may have come in late on this thread, but is the idea that either Kinbote or Nabokov regards homosexuality as sinful, a "vice"? Surely these terms wouldn't have made sense to VN, and as for Kinbote, he may be a Christian but he delights in his homosexuality. His suicide has absolutely nothing to do with being gay.
I also find it hard to believe that VN avoids specific descriptions of Kinbote's sexual practices (well, except for the double ping-pong tables, of course!) because his imagination somehow failed him. Rather, isn't it likely that such an explicit dimension just isn't relevant either to Kinbote's character or to the themes of the novel? Does its lack turn Kinbote into a "type"? I'm not sure how to refute that, other than to point out that I've never seen a character remotely like the Great Beaver in any other novel, and I'm positive I would recognize him on the street, or at least after a minute of conversation. Or perhaps to say that I *don't* recognize him at all as "a florid gay character who commits suicide." There's a type, if you like, but it's not VN's.
Best,
John
----- Original Message -----
From: joseph Aisenberg
To: NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 3:21 AM
Subject: Re: [NABOKV-L] THOUGHTS: Kinbote as gay sterotype or symbol
--- On Tue, 10/21/08, NABOKV-L <NABOKV-L@HOLYCROSS.EDU> wrote:
From: NABOKV-L <NABOKV-L@HOLYCROSS.EDU>
Subject: [NABOKV-L] THOUGHTS: Kinbote as gay sterotype or symbol
To: NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 5:40 PM
Jansy responds to Joseph:
JM: In the same way that we see wealthy and poor, philistine and pervert,
fertile or sterile, patriotic or treacherous, normal or neurotic
heterosexuals, the same applies to "homosexuals", no? J.A.: This is true. By no means am I suggesting that N. should have painted theportrait of "nice" homosexual, but I do think Kinbote's hysteriaNarcisism, and especially the unfortunate implied suicide are lame stereotypes (as are the Shades and Hazel in my opinion), for the reasons which I gave and which states, once more,that Nabokov's detailing is vague and abstract where it should havebeen specific and precise, as concerns the character's vice. Justas Nabokov noticed that Dostoyevsky wasn't really explaining to uswhat the narrator of Notes from the Underground actually did thatwas so sinful, Nabokov fudges on his character, and I think it'sbecause he doesn't understand the character; his imagination failshim at that front. Idon't think you can argue with this, but you have anyway. This is why I
don't
think Kinbote's fondness for either strong burly types or long lashed young
men, or description of sexual encounters would be sufficiently revelatory of
VN's intention to burlesque expressions of sexuality to deal with
post-modern "solipsism" in literature or in language.J.A.: Are you saying that I suggested he be specific in order to dramatize this theme? Or that the theme is fully apparent as iswithout the sordid details? Now remember, I'm criticizing this bookas the work of a great writer, on that level and not simply as any otherbook. My point was that Lolita worked in every way while in myopinion Pale Fire doesn't quite work on any level excepting how it was conceived. I focusedon Kinbote's sexuality because I thought it revealed an aestheticflaw as set by Nabokov's own standards. I.E. he's against types, but thengoes on to give us a
florid gay character so self-hating he commits suicideand uses his condition to function as a comic abstraction of arstistic solipsism, though I'mcertain he would vehemently deny this, saying that he functioned as nothing more orless than the precise words set down on the page. Btw: VN often
acknowledges that his characters are not "types" ("The story in
Bend
Sinister is not really about life and death in a grotesque police state. My
characters are not 'types,' not carriers of this or that
'idea.' BS,
preface )J.A.: It's because he says that I brought all this up in the firstplace. Yet you can't always trust the interviews and the prefaces,The Wilson letters have him claiming the opposite of his statedstands: to Wilson for instance, he says that Lolita is a deeply moralbook which makes fun of American mores. Btw. this anti-idea notion has never made any sense. Surelyyou can't really believe in that "bl" notion. Nabokov is one of themost opinionated and polemical of writers I've ever come across, even politically. This is a writer who ascribes spiritualvaluations to bathing! Ada is filled with carping, swipes and
asidesabout his own likes and dislikes.
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I also find it hard to believe that VN avoids specific descriptions of Kinbote's sexual practices (well, except for the double ping-pong tables, of course!) because his imagination somehow failed him. Rather, isn't it likely that such an explicit dimension just isn't relevant either to Kinbote's character or to the themes of the novel? Does its lack turn Kinbote into a "type"? I'm not sure how to refute that, other than to point out that I've never seen a character remotely like the Great Beaver in any other novel, and I'm positive I would recognize him on the street, or at least after a minute of conversation. Or perhaps to say that I *don't* recognize him at all as "a florid gay character who commits suicide." There's a type, if you like, but it's not VN's.
Best,
John
----- Original Message -----
From: joseph Aisenberg
To: NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 3:21 AM
Subject: Re: [NABOKV-L] THOUGHTS: Kinbote as gay sterotype or symbol
--- On Tue, 10/21/08, NABOKV-L <NABOKV-L@HOLYCROSS.EDU> wrote:
From: NABOKV-L <NABOKV-L@HOLYCROSS.EDU>
Subject: [NABOKV-L] THOUGHTS: Kinbote as gay sterotype or symbol
To: NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 5:40 PM
Jansy responds to Joseph:
JM: In the same way that we see wealthy and poor, philistine and pervert,
fertile or sterile, patriotic or treacherous, normal or neurotic
heterosexuals, the same applies to "homosexuals", no? J.A.: This is true. By no means am I suggesting that N. should have painted theportrait of "nice" homosexual, but I do think Kinbote's hysteriaNarcisism, and especially the unfortunate implied suicide are lame stereotypes (as are the Shades and Hazel in my opinion), for the reasons which I gave and which states, once more,that Nabokov's detailing is vague and abstract where it should havebeen specific and precise, as concerns the character's vice. Justas Nabokov noticed that Dostoyevsky wasn't really explaining to uswhat the narrator of Notes from the Underground actually did thatwas so sinful, Nabokov fudges on his character, and I think it'sbecause he doesn't understand the character; his imagination failshim at that front. Idon't think you can argue with this, but you have anyway. This is why I
don't
think Kinbote's fondness for either strong burly types or long lashed young
men, or description of sexual encounters would be sufficiently revelatory of
VN's intention to burlesque expressions of sexuality to deal with
post-modern "solipsism" in literature or in language.J.A.: Are you saying that I suggested he be specific in order to dramatize this theme? Or that the theme is fully apparent as iswithout the sordid details? Now remember, I'm criticizing this bookas the work of a great writer, on that level and not simply as any otherbook. My point was that Lolita worked in every way while in myopinion Pale Fire doesn't quite work on any level excepting how it was conceived. I focusedon Kinbote's sexuality because I thought it revealed an aestheticflaw as set by Nabokov's own standards. I.E. he's against types, but thengoes on to give us a
florid gay character so self-hating he commits suicideand uses his condition to function as a comic abstraction of arstistic solipsism, though I'mcertain he would vehemently deny this, saying that he functioned as nothing more orless than the precise words set down on the page. Btw: VN often
acknowledges that his characters are not "types" ("The story in
Bend
Sinister is not really about life and death in a grotesque police state. My
characters are not 'types,' not carriers of this or that
'idea.' BS,
preface )J.A.: It's because he says that I brought all this up in the firstplace. Yet you can't always trust the interviews and the prefaces,The Wilson letters have him claiming the opposite of his statedstands: to Wilson for instance, he says that Lolita is a deeply moralbook which makes fun of American mores. Btw. this anti-idea notion has never made any sense. Surelyyou can't really believe in that "bl" notion. Nabokov is one of themost opinionated and polemical of writers I've ever come across, even politically. This is a writer who ascribes spiritualvaluations to bathing! Ada is filled with carping, swipes and
asidesabout his own likes and dislikes.
Search the archive Contact the Editors Visit "Nabokov Online Journal"
Visit Zembla View Nabokv-L Policies Manage subscription options
All private editorial communications, without exception, are read by both co-editors.
Search archive with Google:
http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:listserv.ucsb.edu&HL=en
Contact the Editors: mailto:nabokv-l@utk.edu,nabokv-l@holycross.edu
Visit Zembla: http://www.libraries.psu.edu/nabokov/zembla.htm
View Nabokv-L policies: http://web.utk.edu/~sblackwe/EDNote.htm
Visit "Nabokov Online Journal:" http://www.nabokovonline.com
Manage subscription options: http://listserv.ucsb.edu/